;)
]]>Akiva said:For anyone reading this, the take away from this layout experiment is:
- The only directional key layout that is sound on the left hand is PSCT, otherwise the right hand is better suited for this.
- Shift Keys on ' and Capslock are amazing.Interesting findings. I'm surprised WARS is so bad given that pattern is so standard in gaming. I suppose the left hand shift from the normal home position is not really a factor in gaming. But anyway, I agree having arrows on the right is better!
Regarding Shift, I still think you can't beat having Shift on a thumb key (one of the Alts). But ' and CapsLock is an interesting option, which I've considered previously. Instead of Shift, I think these keys might be good as AltGr (selectors for third and fourth levels), especially if defining programmer/symbols. It would also make it easy to do Shift+AltGr combos with thumb and pinkie.
Yeah WARS is just awful due to the upper row being shifted left, because your fingers have a proclivity to stretch up and inwards. I think with Gaming, people just bare through it, although at this point, I am often now remapping my WARS in gaming to PSCT. I just like it that much.
That is a very interesting suggestion, moving shift to the thumb and altgr to the pinkys....
I will have to try that, because, if I can successfully get the space bar to dual function as a modifier key, uppercase will be even nicer as I will not have to shift my pinkies. The drawback though will be that I will lose directional keys...
We will see.
]]>For anyone reading this, the take away from this layout experiment is:
- The only directional key layout that is sound on the left hand is PSCT, otherwise the right hand is better suited for this.
- Shift Keys on ' and Capslock are amazing.
Interesting findings. I'm surprised WARS is so bad given that pattern is so standard in gaming. I suppose the left hand shift from the normal home position is not really a factor in gaming. But anyway, I agree having arrows on the right is better!
Regarding Shift, I still think you can't beat having Shift on a thumb key (one of the Alts). But ' and CapsLock is an interesting option, which I've considered previously. Instead of Shift, I think these keys might be good as AltGr (selectors for third and fourth levels), especially if defining programmer/symbols. It would also make it easy to do Shift+AltGr combos with thumb and pinkie.
]]>A new keyboard:
means it is time to redo everything.
First, the directional keys on the left hand.
WARS - Failure. Requires the hand shift, not good.
FRST - Failure. That middle finger will start to hurt. Acceptable maybe if you happen to have a grid keyboard.
PSCT - Pretty good, surprisingly, but annoying with vim, as down was too close to the paste button. (v)
If you are intent on using the left hand, PSCT is very comfortable, after adjusting to it about after a week. All directional keys will thus be handled with the index and middle finger.
Second; the shift keys
' was turned into a shift, and I loved it. Eventually I turned caps into a shift as well, and moved backspace down to the shift key. Worked well.
I found a git project that turned the space key into a control when held down, but just a space when pressed.
I plan to use that code to work on turning the space into a level 3 modifier key instead, and the capslock and ' keys into backspace when tapped, and shift while held. I will then turn the shift keys into control keys.
Third, the Number Pad
On the right hand, definitely easier to navigate. I might keep it there, but delegate it to a higher modifier key. The thinkpad i bought seems to have a decent layout for it already mapped on the keys on the right hand.
@Dreymar
st were left and right. with alt shift, they became home and end. Decent, but inconsistent results on apps for some reason. The left hand was interesting, but it was better to have them on the right hand after all.
@kohlerm
Swapping the () makes sense when you consider that you roll your fingers pinky to thumb the easiest. After I got used to it, I could not do without it. Placing the {} a shift above was also practical.
I was surprised that you dont like the dash position. For me, I use a lot of _, but having the dash there works for me as well. in either case, moving the equals away to the edge has worked well for me. I ended up putting the / back on the 7, and making the 3 into the '
having the */ bigram is just too valuable for my commenting needs :-)
Okay all, stay tuned for my next thread.
For anyone reading this, the take away from this layout experiment is:
- The only directional key layout that is sound on the left hand is PSCT, otherwise the right hand is better suited for this.
- Shift Keys on ' and Capslock are amazing.
However, it's possible to map a given key press to any modified key so Ctrl+Shift+Left could be sent by a single key if so desired! My symbols/extend file is full of such arcane incantations. Beware ye who enter.
I should look at that right away.
Dual-role keys aren't easy with XKB, albeit popular in other implementations. But you could map level1 of a key to a key press (BackSpace) and higher levels to other key presses such as Shift or Level5_switch or what-have-you.
I see, like a step modifier. Might be interesting for a finger roll keyboard... geepers... just think how far you could go with that...
Anyway, when you say not easy, would you even know where to start?
It works, but it's not as nice as having a split-space keyboard.
I'm thinking I will be going with japanese keyboards until thinkpad gets a grid based layout:
]]>stevep99 had a topic a little back about using the Space key to double as AltGr, and some interesting insights came out of that but it quickly gets involved (Shift+Space would ideally be AltGr – but what about the Shift state then?). :-)
The idea there was to define the AltGr key to be Shift (using right thumb), and then:
1. press thumb Shift -> hold Space -> release Shift : tapping any key gives layer 3.
2. hold thumb Shift -> hold Space : tapping any key gives layer 4.
Normal space function unaffected.
It works, but it's not as nice as having a split-space keyboard.
]]>However, it's possible to map a given key press to any modified key so Ctrl+Shift+Left could be sent by a single key if so desired! My symbols/extend file is full of such arcane incantations. Beware ye who enter.
Dual-role keys aren't easy with XKB, albeit popular in other implementations. But you could map level1 of a key to a key press (BackSpace) and higher levels to other key presses such as Shift or Level5_switch or what-have-you. However, usually that's not very convenient. stevep99 had a topic a little back about using the Space key to double as AltGr, and some interesting insights came out of that but it quickly gets involved (Shift+Space would ideally be AltGr – but what about the Shift state then?). :-)
]]>Yes, I've implemented Extend as level5–8 key mappings. The Caps–Extend modifier is a level5 shift key (a switch modifier, in xkb terms).
Fascinating, you must have spent quite a bit, neck deep in documentation.
As for key combos, I am most curious how you are achieving
ctrl + shift + left
pressing just two keys.
As for what I am using now, I am curious whether it is possible to alter shift so that, when pressed alone, it acts as a BackSpace, but when held and used to press another key, it acts as a key modifier (And after release, will not perform backspace).
Any clue on the feasibility of that idea?
]]>Not sure what you mean by key combos, but the Extend-modifiers work. The exception to this is if chords get too fat (e.g., the tetrachord Ext+S+T+N), in which case it may fail. Trichords seem entirely unproblematic on the whole.
If you mean ligatures/strings by "key combos", then indeed that's not easy. But Undo/Cut/Copy/Paste are all just modified key strokes. I started out with the multimedia Undo/Cut/Copy/Paste keys, but those are poorly implemented in most apps so now I just send Ctrl+Z/X/C/V which works well.
I use an arrow cross for navigation, which is what gamers prefer on the whole. It also lends itself to useful positions for Home/End which are very useful keys for a vimmer outside Vim. Adding PgDn/Up and Back/Del on the sides and homerow modifiers on the other hand makes the nav block very powerful. So that's good. ;-)
]]>It's amazing how much work some people do without doing a little research. ;-)
Horrid I know.
Definitely a lot there I plan to take from, and might actually eliminate my need for putting navigation on the left hand if the numpad can be delegated to the extended layer (Although I still have one more experiment I will be trying). Thanks for all your work on this, and hopefully I can help with documentation.
Two short questions (Before I delve into the modifier key madness)
• XKB is incapable as far as I know with implementing key combos. Is this true, and if yes, how are you achieving the extended cut copy and past (plus others)? Is it delegating ext as a control modifier simultaneously?
• Is extended considered as Level 5?
Also an interesting prospect I am bouncing around in my head. With the abandonment of Unity by ubuntu, there is a good chance that I will be making it on the team which sees to the project's completion (Yunit). The input boxes need to be programmed, and if I could get my hands on it, there are a lot of prospects in terms of keyboard shortcuts and macros (Vim's find functionality for example would be amazing) that could be embedded into the system...
This does cause the navigation keys to be on the left though, which for some reason feels wrong
Quick update: HomeRow control keys also suck. Now I am experimenting with:
s=left
t=right
p=up
c=down
So far, this feels really good.
]]>I'm selling Extend at great length in the Extend Extra Extreme topic. Have a gander please.
Since Space is by far the most common character typed, I advocate against trying to dual-role that key. As mentioned, I use it as Enter in my Extend layer (reserving O for Backspace). But that's okay since it doesn't interfere with normal typing in any way.
]]>
I am definitely having trouble with wads, but only in slight middle finger strain. I have a good solution though. VI is actually ←↑↓→ I think I will do that, and place home and end on wf, and escape on q.
Lately I have been thinking whether it possible to turn the spacebar into an altgr, with the idea that a press and hold will turn it into a modifier key. Sounds tough though to implement.
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