• You are not logged in.

    Alex's switching experiences

    • Started by Alexander
    • 24 Replies:
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 13-Jun-2012
    • Posts: 8

    Computer guy for the past 20+ years, never fully learned to touch type properly. (4-6 finger, ~60 wpm on 10FF, don't strictly have to look at the keyboard but usually do look back and forth.)

    Tried Dvorak around 1997, but between the crazy punctuation rearrangement, keyboard shortcuts without a good standard way to rapidly switch layouts, and lack of time to devote, it never really stuck.

    On day 7 of Colemak now, getting about 17 wpm fully touch when I'm in the zone; I feel like it's about the switching-over-for-casual-use point. I've been using aTypeTrainer4Mac to get the layout and touch typing bit down.

    Totally loving the caps-lock backspace, btw. I also think it's a great advantage not having a Colemak-capped keyboard, since it forces the touch-typing.

    I was having some trouble with some old mild RSI pain in my right wrist while learning, so I pulled out my old wrist braces, and traced the pain to the ulnar deviation of hitting the right shift key. It goes away if I shift my whole hand to the right to get to that shift key.

    Ok, it's taken way too long to write this post, so I'm going to take a break now. ;)

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 214
    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,362

    Good choice mate, stick to it and enjoy! :)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 7
    • Registered: 21-Apr-2010
    • Posts: 818

    Interesting point about he shift key.  With regards to the ulnar deviation.  Out of curiosity:

    Do you alternate hands for the shift?

    Which side have you problems with?

    Are you keying the shift with a pinky?

    Are you or were you rotating the hand sightly to hit the shift key?

    I felt a great deal of stress from the stiffness in my hands when I first started to learn to touch type.  The left hand side, without Dreymar's wide mod,  can also feel a bit twisted on a standard keyboard.  I think I escape some issues using Dvorak in this regard - because it's quite gentle on the left hand.   Though I still have some suspicion that pinky contortions can put some stress on the upper body.  It's six of one and half a dozen of the other when trying to type comfortably (with me anyway.)

    --
    Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 13-Jun-2012
    • Posts: 8

    Thanks!

    I am alternating hands for the shift, mostly because this appears to be the "correct" way for touch-typing. Do most people not? I do notice a definite preference for the left shift key if left to my own devices.

    And yes, I am using my pinky and was rotating my hand; I can sort of reach the right shift without rotating or moving my index finger off the N key -- it's kind of an "expansion" of my hand, but it feels much less natural.

    Admittedly, aTypeTrainer was throwing a lot of caps at me, the problem is much less pronounced in everyday typing.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 13-Jun-2012
    • Posts: 8

    Oh, the wide layout looks really interesting, though I'm on a US keyboard at the moment.

    Will definitely check that out as I progress.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 7
    • Registered: 21-Apr-2010
    • Posts: 818

    I'd avoid caps to a certain extent while you're practicing.  I'm a fan of sticky keys myself - I think it lightens the load on the hands.

    I personally alternate shift keys.  I'd be interested whether other people do so also and as to whether they alternate thumbs on the spacebar?

    The little things can make or lift stresses.

    --
    Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 4
    • Registered: 08-Dec-2010
    • Posts: 656

    I think alternate shift is a must. When you type A you use right shift, type M you use left shift.

    For space, I use only left thumb.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 214
    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,362

    I got hold of a Unicomp keyboard with US markings AND 105 keys. I love that, but it isn't easy to find.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 7
    • Registered: 21-Apr-2010
    • Posts: 818

    I just glanced at wikipedia - to look over 105 keys - and found this amazing 106 key:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Comp … ed_III.jpg

    I still couldn't work out what and where the extra three keys were on the 105.  I quite fancy a unicomp.

    Last edited by pinkyache (14-Jun-2012 14:28:44)

    --
    Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 4
    • Registered: 08-Dec-2010
    • Posts: 656
    pinkyache said:

    I just glanced at wikipedia - to look over 105 keys - and found this amazing 106 key:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Comp … ed_III.jpg

    I still couldn't work out what and where the extra three keys were on the 105.  I quite fancy a unicomp.

    That keyboard is for Japanese, they use the additional two keys near Spacebar for Hiragana and Katakana methods of typing Japanese words.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_input_methods

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 214
    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,362

    Pinky: The difference between the 102 and 105 key (or 101 and 104 key in the US) is the Menu and two Win keys. The Japanese 106-key board doesn't have those but it has the keys Tony describe. Unfortunately, I don't think they're easily mappable unless you hack a MSKLC file for Win or something similarly you-really-need-to-know-what-you're-doing-ish for other OS.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 13-Jun-2012
    • Posts: 8

    Up from 17 to 28 wpm in two days, woot! I've been typing Heart of Darkness with Amphetype (great program), and been using my computer 100% in Colemak, though not doing any serious typing outside of practice. I've noticed that it is much easier and faster now to copy text than to write my own prose, because 99% of the time, I'm nowhere near automatic. The 1% that I am, though, is awwwwesome. :)

    Shift key photos:

    BSYAU.jpg
    Normal home row.

    hE0NX.jpg
    Right shift default movement, note wrist angle.

    WK6LA.jpg
    Moving entire arm over and pressing right shift.

    M9I5R.jpg
    "Expanding" hand to hit right shift, keeping index finger on home key.

    Last edited by Alexander (15-Jun-2012 23:27:15)
    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 13-Jun-2012
    • Posts: 8

    I definitely was only using my right thumb for the space bar, trying to work in the left now too.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 1
    • From: Sofia, Bulgaria
    • Registered: 05-Mar-2011
    • Posts: 387

    About the thumb – I would say go with whatever's more comfortable for you. I'm using right and I've got no problems whatsoever with load dis-balance between hands (if that's your concern). Either left or right is good. I would never recommend alternating between both while typing (as some tutors do...).

    Maybe if you want to be kind to your keyboard and you're an fps gamer, it would be better to use the right side of the space while typing and the left for jumping or whatever in the game. Oh well :) Whatever suits you.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 214
    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,362

    Hmmm. I don't do much wrist or arm movement to reach the RShift key, I notice. Mostly, I curl the pinky with only a very slight twist of the hand. Seems unproblematic to me.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 7
    • Registered: 21-Apr-2010
    • Posts: 818

    Twisting the left pinky for the shift key is probably more problematic than the right.   For me at least the left incurs a greater twist (Edit: that's if I want to keep my left forefinger close to F (Qwerty), perhaps I shouldn't do this.)  Not using the opposite hand for shifting to the letter you're keying can leads to some bizarre contortions - think capitalising Y one handed under Qwerty - or trying to reach up for the number row.

    I don't alternate thumbs for the space bar.  And I wouldn't think it would lead to as much gain.  As you aren't chording when spacing.  Plus the space bar has a large target area - which places less restriction on the placement and posture of the hand.

    If you practice with both the left and right thumbs for space bar and can use either, you may find that you naturally adjust to use the thumb that is more comfortable for a given moment.

    Last edited by pinkyache (18-Jun-2012 16:30:22)

    --
    Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 214
    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,362

    Yeah, I think you shouldn't force the index finger to keep in place but move your hand ever so slightly around. That's why you have those nice homing nipples, eh? :)

    Never cared for alternating thumbs. It isn't necessary I believe. Shame that we don't get to use the left thumb which is an awesome resource gone to waste, but it's not like the right thumb gets tired or anything. Whichever thumb you use, there's plenty of room on that huge Space bar to accommodate a comfortable hand position so that shouldn't be a problem either.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 13-Jun-2012
    • Posts: 8

    Welp, that didn't go so well. I had a project to work on where I had to use all my mental energy to think instead of just trying to type, so i fell back into QWERTY for a few months.

    I did start consciously not letting myself look at the keyboard, and got quite good at pianistically touch-typing QWERTY, so I figured I could rearrange my Macbook's keys:

    X3YRM.jpg

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 1
    • From: Sofia, Bulgaria
    • Registered: 05-Mar-2011
    • Posts: 387

    Nice, now it looks native Colemaker. You're going to have a lot of explaining to do to curious faces.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 4
    • Registered: 08-Dec-2010
    • Posts: 656

    Alex, how you recognize the T and N without the nub on top of these keys? I do not rearrange my laptop keys for that reason.

    Last edited by Tony_VN (08-Oct-2012 17:23:18)
    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 13-Jun-2012
    • Posts: 8

    *shrug* I don't really use the nubs. I don't do the standard "home row" touch typing, which works okay for me. I just tested at ~70wpm on 10FF, QWERTY no-look typing on the rearranged keyboard above.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 1
    • From: Sofia, Bulgaria
    • Registered: 05-Mar-2011
    • Posts: 387

    Well if you think about it, you don't really need the nubs right under the home index finger position. It should be all right to have them elsewhere, as long as you can use them as guidance to your home keys – ARST and NEIO (or whichever they are). With that said, it's of course ideal to have them on T and N :)

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 13-Jun-2012
    • Posts: 8

    Giving it some more thought: If you want to place your hands on the keyboard without looking, all you need is some sort of physical reference point. The layout of this keyboard is such that the spacebar has a nice centered placement for my thumbs in the home position, so I could just feel for its edges when I place my hands.

    Or, just look briefly and cover up everything on the home row around the "DH".

    The nubs are nice, but hardly required. You can get good at anything with practice. ;)

    Last edited by Alexander (08-Oct-2012 22:36:54)
    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 1
    • From: Sofia, Bulgaria
    • Registered: 05-Mar-2011
    • Posts: 387

    "You can get good at anything with practice." – Yes, very true.

    A while ago I used to use the lowered part of the CapsLock key, next to A, to position my hand, and I still do actually. I still think though, part of the reasons of having a physical reference for your home keys is to be able to start typing without having to look down first. Looking down could take some time and concentration depending on what you're doing.

    Anyway. As long as you've got (or make) something to reference to and you're happy, you're set.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 214
    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,362

    The left hand isn't a problem, as the nub will still be on the F key for your middle finger to home on.

    On one of my keyboards there was a nub on NumPad 5 so I swapped that for the N. Looks a bit silly but only marginally. I never miss the NumPad keys anyway. Of course, the keyboard in question here has no NumPad. There's the also option of dabbing a little drop of glue on the N key.

    Last edited by DreymaR (09-Oct-2012 13:24:10)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0