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1st Sentence of Website is Incorrect

  • Started by Werew
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  • Registered: 16-Jun-2011
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For all the times I've visited the site I can't believe I didn't notice it.  There is no evidence to the best of my knowledge supporting the claim that QWERTY was set up so that "typewriter" could be typed on a single row or that it was designed to slow the typist down "to prevent typebars from sticking."  In fact, there is a paper titled "On the Prehistory of QWERTY" (pdf) that seems to have been written just to debunk these myths.  I'd love to be proven wrong, but it irks me that the top line of the website for the keyboard layout I use has questionable assertions for promotion.  Is there any chance the first sentence could be removed or changed?

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Hear hear!

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#Hi … d_purposes

The Wikipedia article was fairly murky on this point too. I agree that this is a highly contested point and shouldn't be presented as fact. No need to really, it'll only detract from the credibility of this site.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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Crap I just cited this info in a podcast! I'll email an admin about removal...

Edit: i emailed Shai, so we'll see...

Last edited by raccer (16-Jun-2011 19:36:57)
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Whoa, thanks for the quick responses.  I figured it'd take a while on this forum due to the low number of active threads.  Guess I was wrong.  The first sentence of the site hasn't changed yet though.  Any word back from Shai?

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I'm bumping this thread because the problem still hasn't been solved.

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I'm bumping this thread again because the problem still hasn't been solved.

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  • Shai
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Sentence removed

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  • From: Viken, Norway
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Thanks, Shai!

Now, as mentioned in another thread it'd be nice to have someone update the news every once in a while (someone mentioned that the transitional layouts haven't made it to the front page even though some consider them very useful). Have you given that any thought Shai?

Last edited by DreymaR (09-Apr-2014 10:26:47)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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Thanks so much!   The new intro is great!

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If anything, it could've included a little bit about how Colemak was made (both using algorithms and trial, taking polygrams and balance into account). Dvorak didn't have the computing power and most of today's alternative layouts don't get tested and thought through enough before publication. I just saw someone loudly claiming that Colemak is designed from letter frequencies alone and that's a sad misconception!

Casey Johnston on Ars Technica tries to learn dvorak and reaps a comment storm (thanks to Lalop for the links):
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/03/ … ut-part-1/
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/04/ … ut-part-2/

Last edited by DreymaR (10-Apr-2014 09:05:08)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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From the Colemak homepage today:

The QWERTY layout was designed in the 19th century. Colemak is a modern alternative to the QWERTY and Dvorak layouts. It is designed for efficient and ergonomic touch typing in English.
Learning Colemak is a one-time investment that will allow you to enjoy faster and pain-free typing for the rest of your life. Colemak is now the 3rd most popular keyboard layout for touch typing in English, after QWERTY and Dvorak.

Bold claim: 'Pain-free typing.'

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Yes, probably too bastant. I'd use 'more comfortable' I guess. Of course, some people are in pain no matter what layout they use but in a layout discussion context that phrase should be clear enough without overstretching.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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I'd second the existence of gradual transitioning* as a killer feature, if not the killer feature of colemak. As the website itself says:

Memorization isn't linear

Memorizing a 16 character random password (e.g. WLJc8Rs2MqwChYM1) takes much more time than memorizing an 8 character random password (e.g. pK3QCfyT) (more than twice the time). Colemak moves only 17 keys, while Dvorak moves 33 keys.

What better way to drive that point home than to make it official: transition just 3-5 keys at a time! Dvorak would practically look like a dinosaur..


* for QWERTY touchtypists only

Last edited by lalop (10-Apr-2014 11:59:35)
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> gradual transitioning as a killer feature

For Qwerty users perhaps.

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Thanks, forgot to mention that.

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Most of us have a connection to QWERTY no matter what. I do feel that the transition from dvorak may have been harder than had I gone directly from QWERTY to Colemak. Nevertheless, regaining the keys that Colemak don't move felt good. Touch typing or not, most people have an idea of the QWERTY layout either consciously or subconsciously. So the idea of transitional layouts should have a fairly wide appeal I think.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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Imagine I've just heard about Colemak.  What is it?

I'd aim to define Colemak in one sentence.  Then expand that to a short paragraph.  Then go into more depth.

I type 'What is Colemak?' into Google.  Colemak.com today is the top hit.  Wikipedia also has an entry under Keyboard layouts:

https://colemak.com
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colemak#Colemak

How about this as a start:

Colemak is a modern alternative keyboard layout designed for Qwerty touch typists.

Try and catch a little essense of the design.  What was the itch that required a scratch, the inspiration?  How can it aid people?  Set it apart from the alternatives.

What does it look like?  How can I try it?

I'm no salesman I might add.  I do know that it's quite hard to explain to someone what a keyboard layout is without them glazing over very quickly.

A lot of the info is on the website it just needs a little reshuffling.

Are the transitional layouts a selling point or does that confuse matters?  Perhaps on a page: 'Where do I begin?'/'How to try Colemak', you could place the info there.

I will take a punt and suggest that those coming to the website are either there to learn about it, or there because they've decided to try an alternative layout.   Some of which might just want to dive straight in.

(I never thought I'd be dabbling in Colemak advocation...  Apologies if I'm way off the mark.)

Last edited by pinkyache (10-Apr-2014 15:08:19)

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But it's not just designed for QWERTY touch typists. It's designed to be good for touch typing without making unnecessary changes from the well-known QWERTY! So you could be a non-touch typist, or a non-QWERTY typist who wants something that conforms better with what most other people are using (which was my case as a dvorak typist) and Colemak fits your bill.

Other than that, good points. Maybe one could mention the hand rolls, but that's probably too technical for the opening phrases.

And yes, a pretty picture right away please. Feel free to use one of my IBM-style images, or I could make a new one to specifications.

Last edited by DreymaR (10-Apr-2014 14:21:06)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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colemak2.jpg

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Okay, I'll give it a shot.  I think we have to assume that readers know what "keyboard layout" and "QWERTY" means for any sensible intro.  But at least it can come with a hook:




The QWERTY keyboard layout was designed in the 19th century, predating even the concept of touchtyping.  As such, it came with significant flaws: most obviously, the common Y and extremely common T were placed in awkward spots, while the uncommon K and very rare J were given privileged positions. Though the Dvorak Simplified Keyboard layout corrected some of these flaws, its large deviation from the, by then, de facto QWERTY standard made it difficult to adopt.

Colemak is a modern alternative to the QWERTY and Dvorak layouts.  It is designed for efficient and ergonomic touch typing in English, but in addition, it is designed to provide QWERTY users an easy transition:

  • Colemak is similar enough that it is possible for QWERTY touchtypists to learn it 3-5 keys at a time, reducing both the effort and risk normally associated with switching layouts.

  • Despite changing only 17 keys from QWERTY (compared to Dvorak's 33), Colemak stands on its own, even beating Dvorak in certain analyses.

  • Unlike Dvorak, Colemak preserves most of QWERTY's left-side Ctrl- shortcuts, with destructive shortcuts such as Ctrl-Q, Ctrl-W, Ctrl-X unchanged, and some others (Ctrl-R) even arguably improved.  For more details, see Shortcuts.

Colemak is now the 3rd most popular keyboard layout for touchtyping in English, after QWERTY and Dvorak.  Learning it is a one-time, and unprecedentedly easy, investment for the rest of your typing life.



Tarmak section: TBA



Shortcuts section: TBA





Note: the above compositions may not be accurate; any corrections are invited.

Last edited by lalop (10-Apr-2014 15:58:43)
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The Dvorak layout didn't *attempt* to correct some of the flaws of QWERTY; it succeeded well enough on that account. I'd scratch "attempted to correct" and just say "corrected".

Not "stands on its own" but "stands it own ground" I think?

It's important to stress that Colemak performs at least as well as Dvorak in many analyses. Good.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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DreymaR said:

I'd scratch "attempted to correct" and just say "corrected".

Corrected.

DreymaR said:

Not "stands on its own" but "stands it own ground" I think?

It's important to stress that Colemak performs at least as well as Dvorak in many analyses. Good.

"Stands its own ground" is kind of an awkward idiom in this context; it makes it sound like there's some sort of land war going on.

Serious analyses aren't common, and so far I've only seen that one and I guess MTGAP.  If more are found, maybe they can be put in their own section.

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@lalop I'm not sure if that quite rolls off the tongue...

@dreymar I was trying to keep it short and sweet ;)

I think you can tuck that Qwerty pre-amble somewhere else.  Improve upon the design of Qwerty.  Or something to do with home row typing.  I do see Colemak having a mixed heritage belonging to Qwerty and Dvorak.  Qwerty was designed for type writers.

The 3rd most popular layout for English typists (currently), is an interesting factoid.  Something for a news section.

Last edited by pinkyache (10-Apr-2014 16:51:03)

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I never learned to touch type using QWERTY.  I chose Colemak over Dvorak when I decided to learn as an undergraduate for three reasons.  As DreymaR said, Colemak was optimized using modern equipment unavailable to Dvorak.  I don't use the Caps Lock key, and an extra Backspace key is useful.  Most importantly, keyboard shortcuts don't change.

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