Introducing the ErnestGP (Vjustinak) Layout - User contributions

vjustin
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03-Jan-2013 03:47:27#1 Introducing the ErnestGP (Vjustinak) Layout

Edit: The layout turned out to be not good, some words are very uncomfortable to type, for example: "you". therefore this layout is inferior to Colemak, don't use it

Edit: I am sorry people. It was a mistake saying that version was to be the final. That was silly.
This is version 1.2 and hopefully the last:

l    h    d    w    b    k    y    u    m    ;
r    n    s    t    g    p    e    a    i    o
z    x    c    v    q    j    f    ,    .    /

Edit: The Final version of Vjustinak is this:
Edit: version 1.1, don't use:

h    l    d    w    b    k    y    m    u    ;
r    n    s    t    g    p    e    i    a    o
z    x    c    v    q    j    f    ,    .    /

It fixes having A and E adjacent in inverse horizontal order to qwerty and R and S adjacent in inverse horizontal order to qwerty (see my post: https://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php … 100#p11100 ) which IMO, and in my case, is a cause of typing mistakes.

(If I ever create other layouts they won't be called Vjustinak, they will have their own name)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: Added some stuff I had forgotten to write:
Edit: I'd forgotten to mention that it's thanks to Loonster's post that I could figure out how to make the layout.

Edit: The following version is deprecated (use the final version instead):

h    l    d    w    b    k    y    u    m    
n    r    s    t    g    p    e    a    i    o
z    x    c    v    q    j    f

Design principles:

1. reduce the use of the two central keys of the home row:
vs. Colemak: success (p instead of h)
vs. Qwerty: success

2. increase hand alternation:
vs Colemak: success
vs. Qwerty: success

3. reduce same finger usage
vs Colemak: failure
vs. Qwerty: success

4. Keep zxcv and non-alphabet characters on the Colemak positions.
success.

5. Ignore factors such as: inside rolls, outside rolls, weaker fingers, combos, trigraphs, distance,...:
success.

Edit:6. I scored the positions on the keyboard this way, the smaller the number the better,:

2  2  2  5   6   6    5  2  2  ;  
1  1  1  1   3   3    1  1  1  1
z  x  c  v   7   7    4  ;  ;  ;

- It's handcrafted. I only used a spreadsheet.
- bigrams list from http://norvig.com/ngrams/ (count_2l.txt)
- I didn't intend to keep RSTGIOU in the colemak positions, it just happened.

Edit:

Using this page as text: https://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?id=324&p=1
Finger Travel Distance

(andong)
Qwerty 1297
Dvorak 789
Workman 726
Colemak 706
ALLENAK 0.9 "Light" 699
Vjustinak 680

(patorjk)
QWERTY 1539.3
Simplified Dvorak 998.3
Allenak 9 light 951.3
Colemak 931.1
Justinak 927.1
-------------------------------------------------
Same finger use:

(andong)
% Keys typed with the same finger as the previous key
Qwerty 4.20%
ALLENAK 0.9 "Light" 3.80%
Vjustinak 2.80%
Workman 2.60%
Dvorak 2.30%
Colemak 2.00%

(patorjk)

QWERTY 4.30%
Allenak 9 light 3.80%
Justinak 2.80%
Simplified Dvorak 2.40%
Colemak 2.10%
-------------------------------
Consecutive Hand Use

(andong)
ALLENAK 0.9 "Light" 33.40%
Qwerty 29.80%
Workman 29.00%
Colemak 27.10%
Vjustinak 24.80%
Dvorak 21.70%

(patorjk)
Allenak 9 light 31.40%
QWERTY 27.90%
Colemak 25.10%
Justinak 22.80%
Simplified Dvorak 19.80%
--------------------------------
Row Jumping with the same hand:

(andong)
Qwerty 8.60%
Workman 2.40%
Vjustinak 2.40%
Colemak 1.80%
Dvorak 1.60%
ALLENAK 0.9 "Light" 1.60%
-------------------------------
Outward Rolls:

(andong)
Workman 15.60%
Colemak 14.20%
ALLENAK 0.9 "Light" 14.00%
Qwerty 13.90%
Vjustinak 12.60%
Dvorak 8.90%

Last edited by vjustin (06-Jan-2013 00:31:48)

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DreymaR
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03-Jan-2013 10:14:17#2 Re: Introducing the ErnestGP (Vjustinak) Layout

Your scoring looks nice. Maybe I'd use 2 for the pinky home keys too.

For me the most important single measure is probably same-finger, and I've heard others think the same way.

You move a lot of keys around - maybe you should consider keeping a few more in place?

Last edited by DreymaR (03-Jan-2013 10:15:27)

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pafkata90
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03-Jan-2013 11:11:42#3 Re: Introducing the ErnestGP (Vjustinak) Layout

I agree with your effort scale. Mine would probably look similar. Maybe slightly lesser number for the index finger top row (P and L on Colemak).

What do you think about considering same hand row jumping? Otherwise I agree with your design principles.

Have you done any testing? When I was designing a layout for my mother language, I noticed that some layouts, which were performing well on paper, were not very comfortable when using.

And just one more thought: using your pinkies as much as the other fingers is not a problem but using them more can make the layout feel bad. Maybe you should consider finger balance just as much so it's not too biased to the pinkies? I haven't checked the stats, so the layout could be fine in that respect.

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vjustin
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03-Jan-2013 22:37:34#4 Re: Introducing the ErnestGP (Vjustinak) Layout

A main motivation for creating it is trying to reduce a little the use of the two central columns and the use of 'R' and 'U' qwerty locations ( for people having difficulty reaching P and L in Colemak and people wanting to reduce the infamous lateral movement of HE EH in Colemak)

The layout has some defects: same finger, row jumping,'A' and 'E' in inverse horizontal order to qwerty (https://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php … 100#p11100)....

The stats for finger usage:

(patorjk) (same input text)
Left Pinky Left Ring Left Middle Left Index Right Index Right Middle Right Ring Right Pinky
QWERTY 8.6% 6.3% 13.0% 17.3% 13.9% 6.8% 9.7% 8.0%
Dvorak 9.5% 7.1% 9.6% 11.8% 12.3% 11.3% 9.7% 12.4%
Colemak 8.6% 6.2% 8.2% 15.3% 13.9% 11.1% 7.9% 12.4%
Capewell 9.1% 10.4% 8.1% 11.5% 13.7% 10.6% 7.8% 12.4%
Justinak 10.5% 7.5% 9.1% 13.2% 14.4% 8.5% 8.2% 12.2%

I am switching to it to test it for a while. I will try to improve it with a program I would write.

Also I have other effort scoring models I want to try:

for people having difficulty reaching P and L in Colemak and people wanting to reduce the infamous lateral movement - 
of HE EH in Colemak

the smaller the number the better:

Vjustinak: 
 trying to reduce a bit the use of the two central columns and the use of R and U qwerty locations:
2  2  2  5   6   6    5  2  2  ;  
1  1  1  1   3   3    1  1  1  1
z  x  c  v   7   7    4  ,  .  / 

 trying to reduce a bit the use of the two central columns and avoiding the freezing of the hands on the home row,-
 by having 'em moving each all over the top and home rows of their half of the keyboard:
1  1  1  1   4   4    1  1  1  ;  
1  1  1  1   2   2    1  1  1  1
z  x  c  v   5   5    3  ,  .  /

Just avoiding the freezing of the hands on the home row, by having 'em moving all over the top and home rows of the keyboard:
1  1  1  1   1   1    1  1  1  ;  
1  1  1  1   1   1    1  1  1  1
z  x  c  v   3   3    2  ,  .  /

Last edited by vjustin (03-Jan-2013 22:43:50)

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vjustin
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04-Jan-2013 05:21:41#5 Re: Introducing the ErnestGP (Vjustinak) Layout

Edit:This is the final version of Vjustinak:
Alternative version: 1.1
Edit: it is just version 1.1 (use version 1.2 instead)

h    l    d    w    b    k    y    m    u    ;
r    n    s    t    g    p    e    i    a    o
z    x    c    v    q    j    f    ,    .    /

Swapped R and N, M and U, and I and A to avoid having A and E adjacent in inverse horizontal order to qwerty and R and S adjacent in inverse horizontal order to qwerty (see my post: https://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php … 100#p11100 ) which IMO, and in my case, is cause of typing mistakes.

Last edited by vjustin (05-Jan-2013 21:57:00)

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vjustin
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05-Jan-2013 06:39:33#6 Re: Introducing the ErnestGP (Vjustinak) Layout

Oh, I thought I had indirectly answered (it's a bad habit I have and need to change) the questions asked, but I realize I didn't . So I'll answer them directly, even if I am incurring on the sin of triple posting.

DreymaR said:

Your scoring looks nice. Maybe I'd use 2 for the pinky home keys too.

Thanks, I wouldn't use 2 for the pinky home keys because I don't have first hand experience with pinky ache (no pun intended) but maybe it would be a good idea to prevent injuries to the pinkies, maybe for a future layout.

DreymaR said:

For me the most important single measure is probably same-finger, and I've heard others think the same way.

Yes I think so too. But I also value hand alternation (I totally buy into Dvorak's ideas)

DreymaR said:

You move a lot of keys around - maybe you should consider keeping a few more in place?

Yes, this layout is final and l can't change it, but it is a good idea I'll use for future layouts.

pafkata90 said:

I agree with your effort scale. Mine would probably look similar. Maybe slightly lesser number for the index finger top row (P and L on Colemak).

True, it's another possibility.

pafkata90 said:

What do you think about considering same hand row jumping? Otherwise I agree with your design principles.

l did not consider it, I'll try to consider it for future layout designs too.

pafkata90 said:

Have you done any testing? When I was designing a layout for my mother language, I noticed that some layouts, which were performing well on paper, were not very comfortable when using.

Totally agree, has already happened to me. So the sensible thing for me to do is to first switch to it myself completely until I find problems with it.

pafkata90 said:

And just one more thought: using your pinkies as much as the other fingers is not a problem but using them more can make the layout feel bad. Maybe you should consider finger balance just as much so it's not too biased to the pinkies? I haven't checked the stats, so the layout could be fine in that respect.

Yes, looking at the stats I posted above it doesn't look too good, but neither too bad.

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