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    LF Experiences of touch typing

    • Started by Bitani
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    Okay. So I'm one of those oddballs that has never learned to touch type, but still reaches ~140-~150 WPM. (On a school typing program in high school, I reached 154.) Most tests on the average day are about 120 WPM.

    I've looked into switching keyboard layouts to try and prevent any RSI from occurring, but if it's possible to keep my speed I'd much rather stick with QWERTY for better VIM/overall compatibility with the tech world. I THINK that most of my RSI problem would be because of mouse usage (it spiked heavily when I tried playing Diablo 3 for a week). If I end up learning touch typing and the problem persists, then I plan on switching to Colemak. At least then I would already have touch typing under my belt.

    Has anybody ever went from pecking/your own form of a typing style (I mostly use ring fingers/middle fingers) to real touch typing? What was your experience with it?

    I'm mainly worried about losing the speed I have right now. But if studies should be believed, I SHOULD reach or surpass my previous speed. And I'm sure nothing can be any more uncomfortable than what I've been doing, especially at this speed.

    Thanks!

    EDIT: Just scored 135 WPM on Ten Fast Fingers. I have a REALLY weird style of typing, especially after toying with Dvorak for the last 2-3 weeks. Surprised I got that high.

    Last edited by Bitani (17-Jan-2013 04:38:10)
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    • From: Tampa, FL, USA
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    If you're having RSI problems I'd recommend looking at a good ergonomic keyboard before switching layouts.   If you have a particular finger that is causing you issues, I'd also suggest looking at how much that finger is used by any candidate layout.  Any layout design is a tradeoff between several metrics, and not all designs prioritize making weaker fingers do less.  Patorjk's keyboard layout analyzer can give you good metrics for any arbitrary layout:  http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/

    Best of luck.

    Last edited by lilleyt (17-Jan-2013 06:38:56)

    Minimak - Better typing without losing QWERTY
    http://www.minimak.org/

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    Bitani said:

    Has anybody ever went from pecking/your own form of a typing style (I mostly use ring fingers/middle fingers) to real touch typing? What was your experience with it?

    Like many here, I think, I went from "own style" qwerty around 75 wpm to touch typing Colemak, eventually at 90+ wpm.  It took some time to get that speed though, but it wasn't my goal (and I didn't track progress, these are just results from occasional tests). 

    However the higher your initial Qwerty speed, the longer it will take to regain and exceed it (with any new layout).  But you should try it and see if you like the "feel".  Especially if you already got your feet wet trying Dvorak. :-)

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    I'm thinking that, after the last two days of trying to learn how to touch type even with QWERTY, that learning Dvorak actually hindered this change. I was typing at 10-20 wpm under the SAME LAYOUT that I could switch instantly to 130 wpm with my own typing style. It's only been a day but right now I'm at about probably 40-45 average, which is what I ended with Dvorak at. It's crazy how much different of a feeling it is to actually type with the right technique.

    Perhaps QWERTY will work just fine for me with touch typing rather than whatever the hell I was doing before? The main worry I had was with compatibility between computers as well as with VIM and other programs.

    Thank you all for the responses, by the way.

    Last edited by Bitani (19-Jan-2013 02:18:25)
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    • From: Viken, Norway
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    Yes, learning some Dvorak will usually mess up your further attempts a bit. But it'll pass like it did for me and many others.

    I don't think that a high initial typing speed will mean a much longer transition, in most cases. Rather to the contrary for some, it seems? I think that much of your typing speed is transferable between layouts, after a transition period.

    For Vim, I've fallen down on not remapping anything (because there's so much you can break that'll eventually likely annoy you), but using an Extend layer to get navigation and editing keys handy not only in Vim but everywhere.

    Last edited by DreymaR (19-Jan-2013 11:31:22)

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    DreymaR said:

    Yes, learning some Dvorak will usually mess up your further attempts a bit. But it'll pass like it did for me and many others.

    I don't think that a high initial typing speed will mean a much longer transition, in most cases. Rather to the contrary for some, it seems? I think that much of your typing speed is transferable between layouts, after a transition period.

    For Vim, I've fallen down on not remapping anything (because there's so much you can break that'll eventually likely annoy you), but using an Extend layer to get navigation and editing keys handy not only in Vim but everywhere.

    If it weren't for VIM, I would probably still be switching over to Colemak. But it is the main program that I use daily, and I just don't really think it's worth all of the hassle of learning a new layout. (And being able to transfer that layout between all of the different PCs that I use.)

    If, God forbid, ignoring the mouse (I've been using the trackpad solely on this laptop the last few days) and using real touch-typing doesn't help this RSI then I guess I will have no other options. I would get a full-on ergonomic keyboard and a real desktop, but I'll be going off to college next year so I'm only really capable of using laptops for a while.

    Last edited by Bitani (19-Jan-2013 22:41:43)
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    And as an example of improvement after switching to touch typing... (God that first day was painful.)

    Now if only I can get back to my original speed.

    2i20nzl.jpg

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    Vim is fine with Colemak, because the commands are mnemonic. It doesn't really matter where the letters in, say, 'diw' are as long as that command makes sense. So once you learn Colemak you'll be able to use Vim with it. Even the nav placements shouldn't bother you once you're used to it.

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    @bitati, you can always keep the laptop, just acquire another keyboard and mouse for it, then raise the display.  I didn't struggle that much with VIM under a different layout.

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    pinkyache said:

    @bitati, you can always keep the laptop, just acquire another keyboard and mouse for it, then raise the display.  I didn't struggle that much with VIM under a different layout.

    I would like to do that, but how would you suggest raising the display? I feel like it would be kind of awkward having the entire front section of the laptop just sticking out.

    I've considered buying an HDMI monitor and hooking it up like you suggested, basically just using the laptop as the tower.

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    I'd just put a couple of books under the laptop.  Or if your laptop opens 180 degrees, then you can place it in a book stand, and the display should be high enough.

    Just be careful with the keyboard height.  You might need a drawer.  Most desks are too high.

    (Considering that when you read the health and safety instructions of a laptop, and they read: don't place laptop on lap.  Or words to that effect.  I wonder how most people get comfortable with them anyway.  I find desks are usually way too high for me, but that's another matter.)

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    pinkyache said:

    (Considering that when you read the health and safety instructions of a laptop, and they read: don't place laptop on lap.  Or words to that effect.  I wonder how most people get comfortable with them anyway.  I find desks are usually way too high for me, but that's another matter.)

    Why not?  It's nice and warm! :-p

    [note: sarcasm, but I really don't believe in those warnings...]

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    Isn't it because you might end up with tumours in your leg/s?  Don't forget to carry around a sheet of lead with you.

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    Lead is primarily used to protect against ionizing radiation, and the only concern regarding laptops that I know of is absorbed heat. I don't worry about that myself, but a warm crotch may reduce fertility (usually temporarily) for those worried about such things. There are reports of heat-induced cancer but that's usually from quite hot surfaces so unless your laptop is really hot I wouldn't worry.

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    UltraZelda64 said:

    Why not?  It's nice and warm! :-p

    That reminded me of what one teacher told me once about an ageing technology that us (old dogs) like to use, but it's inefficient "Using it is kind of like peeing in your pants. In the beginning it's nice and warm, but..."

    No relation, just thought to share haha

    Last edited by pafkata90 (21-Jan-2013 14:05:30)
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    Since Qwerty is not optimized (E and T - the two most frequent keys are not on the homerow), Bitani's unique typing techniques prove much faster than standard touch typing positions.

    Colemak/Dvorak are optimized for touch typing by putting the most used keys to the home row. So if Qwerty users want to try touch typing, perhaps they should do the switching to an alternative layout at the same time to get both benefits together.

    Last edited by Tony_VN (22-Jan-2013 04:43:45)
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    Tony_VN said:

    Since Qwerty is not optimized (E and T - the two most frequent keys are not on the homerow), Bitani's unique typing techniques prove much faster than standard touch typing positions.

    Colemak/Dvorak are optimized for touch typing by putting the most used keys to the home row. So if Qwerty users want to try touch typing, perhaps they should do the switching to an alternative layout at the same time to get both benefits together.

    While my previous style is still faster than what I'm up to now (75-90 wpm usual on Typeracer), actually learning touch typing has greatly improved my comfort already; even with QWERTY. And I can see that once I become COMPLETELY comfortable with touch-typing, (it hasn't even been a week under QWERTY yet) getting at or beyond my previous speed. I had just done that style for so long.

    With the previous style, I was only using 2 and [sometimes, but most of the time not] 3 fingers on each hand. I don't know how I attained the speed I did, but I guarantee that even with QWERTY and its horrible layout that what I was doing is definitely more dangerous than doing it the "proper" way. So I'd still suggest learning home row on any layout.

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    @tony_vn, I really struggled homing my fingers, and aligning them when I first started to touch type.  To the point of discomfort.  I'm not even convinced the home row is the best place to home in on and place the most frequently occurring letters.  Having said that, I've gotten to the point where I'm kind of used to it now.  I was a little scared at going down a path of non-standard fingering - so I just followed the crowd.

    What I'm trying to say is, that having an E in Qwerty's position might not actually be that big a deal.  I figure Qwerty users just move their right hand up to the top row to compensate.

    Last edited by pinkyache (22-Jan-2013 20:53:19)

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    Yeah, the WF and UY positions aren't so bad. I think one problem with them is that an elevated homing position will make it harder/slower to reach the bottom row?

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