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In at the deep end

  • Started by eviltobz
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i should add, often multiple people are logged in at once, and there is no logging out, as there are a variety of apps that should be services but aren't that need to be left running :( so even that would likely cause problems. no way am I gonna remember to disable hacks everytime i stop using a box for a little while. in the words of the song - it sucks to be me.

like i say though, my local machine is still by far the most important box, so when i get some time i'll try to dig through your trickbag for the things that grab me :)

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  • From: Viken, Norway
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Ah. The only viable solution then would be to send the right keyboard codes in the first place! You should build yourself that little gem of Darkness if you really want to use Colemak with all your machines. I haven't yet, but I really want to. :)

Last edited by DreymaR (27-Feb-2013 15:55:37)

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Aye. The old kinesis is pretty reprogrammable, so it's not too bad on that front, and the ergodox (when I get it) is immensely programmable, and it has a few extra proper keys compared to the kinesis. There are some nice UI tools for programming it which offer a LOT of flexibility, and it runs off a teensy and the firmware is in github, so i can go crazy with that if there's extra that I want :) just got the painful wait for it all to be despatched :(

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Forgive me for not working it out, or following the history of Ergodox, but how do I get one?  Can I buy one, or is it a DIY project?  It looks brilliant regardless.

--
Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

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eviltobz said:

You thought about having a nice fancy ergonomic keyboard for the typing and a plain old flat board for the media editing?

I have but I think it would be impractical to switch keyboards by application.  (i.e. When doing web design I often need to switch back and forth between typing markup and editing graphics.  I am a newbie at it, though, and don't know if this is the norm…)

Also, I figure I would rather get used to one kind of layout.  It's a shame because I really like the non-staggered design but I haven't found many keyboards that have this.  And of the one's I have found that do:,

none of them except the SmartBoard have modifiers in the standard position.  Not that that's necessarily a bad thing but so far neither the Kinesis nor the Truly Ergonomic are comfortable for me in this regard in the same way that a standard keyboard layout is.

What I'd like to try is something like this, but without the numeric keypad:
Mock Non-staggered Keyboard
Sadly, it doesn't exist.  It's a mock-up from the blog article, Towards Better Keyboards.

Find me on:  10FastFingers, TypeRacer

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One of the problems of the standard keyboard is that the home row isn't perpendicular to the arm.  Removing the stagger doesn't address that. The ergodox makes much more sense to me, in that you could position each pad more comfortably.

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davkol said:
pinkyache said:

Forgive me for not working it out, or following the history of Ergodox, but how do I get one?  Can I buy one, or is it a DIY project?  It looks brilliant regardless.

There was a group buy at Massdrop, and another one may happen in the future. It's a DIY project, you buy only PCBs, switches, Teensy, case etc., and assemble it by yourself (or pay someone to do it for you).

If you go here https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox you should be able to sign up to be notified if they run it again, but you may need to register with the site before you can do much.

If you keep an eye on these couple of forum threads (sign up on the site and you can get it to auto notify you when new posts are made) there may be news of other people arranging group buys of the bits: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.1680 http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/spli … 3-780.html

You may notice that despite the fact that it needs some serious assembly it ain't cheap :(

Last edited by eviltobz (02-Mar-2013 14:51:21)
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sgtkabukiman said:
eviltobz said:

You thought about having a nice fancy ergonomic keyboard for the typing and a plain old flat board for the media editing?

I have but I think it would be impractical to switch keyboards by application.  (i.e. When doing web design I often need to switch back and forth between typing markup and editing graphics.  I am a newbie at it, though, and don't know if this is the norm…)

Fair enough, such things depend a lot on your work environment, I have plenty of deskspace at my office to be able to do so if I wanted, so it wouldn't really be much of a switch, especially with my multimonitor setup, I could pretty much have a different, task-appropriate keyboard per screen :)

sgtkabukiman said:

What I'd like to try is something like this, but without the numeric keypad:
...
Sadly, it doesn't exist.  It's a mock-up from the blog article, Towards Better Keyboards.

Depending on how dangerous you feel you could always design it and get it built yourself. If you check out the geekhack and deskthority forums in my previous post, there are various guides for how to get custom PCBs and cases made. It's just a factor of how much time and money you want to put in.

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davkol said:

There are plenty of fully programmable point-of-sale keyboards, look for some Access-IS, Tipro, Elcom, Cherry,...

Thanks, I'll check them out!

pinkyache said:

One of the problems of the standard keyboard is that the home row isn't perpendicular to the arm.  Removing the stagger doesn't address that. The ergodox makes much more sense to me, in that you could position each pad more comfortably.

You know, I hadn't thought of that…  That makes a lot of sense to me.  It seems both the Kinesis and TE address this in different ways: The Kinesis by having more space between the hands and the TE by having angled keys in the direction of each arm.  Interesting, I wonder why more keyboard manufacturers don't make keyboards with a complete split between left hand and right hand like the ErgoDox.

Admittedly, regarding the stagger, since my TE got bricked (note that I don't say I bricked it, I followed their instructions!), I've been typing on the standard layout again and after a little bit of an adjustment period I don't really notice the stagger anymore.

What has made a big difference to me is that the modifier keys are comfortable to use again.  Since the TE places them in a vertical line on top of each other, I was toggling them with the pinky and ring-finger, which required the rotation of the wrist in an unnatural/uncomfortable way.  It's likely I didn't use it long enough to find a more ergonomic way to reach those keys and get used to it.  I would still be using the TE today if it didn't die on me, but as it stands I'm sending it back.

eviltobz said:

Depending on how dangerous you feel you could always design it and get it built yourself. If you check out the geekhack and deskthority forums in my previous post, there are various guides for how to get custom PCBs and cases made. It's just a factor of how much time and money you want to put in.

Good point!  The money I don't mind nearly as much as the time, and I have laughable soldering skills.  I really appreciate all these people trying to be innovative and make better keyboards!  If and when they come to market I will gladly show support with my wallet  :).  Until then, I'll just make do.

Find me on:  10FastFingers, TypeRacer

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Heh, fair enough. my soldering skills aren't great, but they have improved significantly since getting a really hot soldering iron that does a good job of melting the solder - the cheap ones are just naff - and I'm hoping that by the end of building my ErgoDox they'll be a lot better :)

I'd still suggest keeping an eye on those forums regarding any DIY type designs that take your fancy as some people were offering their services up to assemble kits for others.

If just the separation of your hands has appeal, one of the cheaper boards that kinesis offer is basically a normal, staggered :( , board cut down the middle, letting you freely muck around with the distance and angles between em. And with something that lets you individually rotate each hand I think that the stupidity of the stagger becomes rather less problematic.

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  • From: Viken, Norway
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I distrust non-staggered boards unless they split in the middle. I think that to keep your wrists straight you need stagger – but in the right direction. Ruining the right hand stagger to fix the left hand one isn't the way to go. I may be wrong but I'm fairly certain about this one!

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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Looks like I'm about 2 months in now. I've not been doing much in the way of actual practice, but my work pooter and main pooters at home are all set to colemak so I've been living with it all this time. I definitely still feel slower and more error prone than I was on the old qwerty layout, but I don't feel like I'm fighting it so much any more, which is good. Every now and then I have a run through the first of the common words list that one of the recommended typing tutor sites has. After I'd been colemaking for a week or 2 I was able to get 25wpm, about a month ago I was around 36wpm, and a few moments ago I got 46wpm, so slowly but surely that speed is coming. I probably should have done some tests of my old qwerty skills before starting so I could see how far I have to go yet. Ho hum, never mind. My accuracy still aint all that, but keeping it in the 95-97% range doesn't seem too bad for now. I still tend to find that I'm trucking through the exercise without a problem, then make one typo and then have a mass of others where I get a little flustered. Hopefully that effect will wear off as I get better with the layout too.

On a related note, the Ergodox keyboards have all been shipped now, so it won't be toooo long til I get away from this old school flat board and have a more similar typing experience at home and at work which may also help my performance as I currently have to flip flop between my Kinesis' lovely thought-out layout and my Apple's not-even-thought-about default mess :)

Last edited by eviltobz (28-Mar-2013 21:52:01)
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another monthish has passed so i thought i should give myself a quick benchmarking session on my little common words list and I just hit 49.5 wpm and 99% accuracy. i'm feeling pretty chuffed with myself now :) there was a possible hint of fluke to that run as i'm sure i'm not that accurate normally, but i'll go with what the test said. i'm not blasting up to the same high speeds that some other colemakkers have reached in the same timeframe, but I'm seeing improvement which is the main thing, and i'm not doing any focussed practice so i don't feel bad about it. i still feel slow compared to my old qwerty speeds, but continuing to be less and less frustrated by it as that gradual improvement is kicking in.

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i just spotted amphetype floating around my dock and thought i'd give myself another benchmarking session. 56.7 wpm at 98.6% accuracy now. i think that i'm still a little way off my old qwerty speeds, but not so much that it really bothers me any longer. hurrah.

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Nice accuracy! With that, your speed will be picking up steadily I'm guessing.

Maybe for a challenge you could do an odd burst test? Forgo a little accuracy to "let'er rip" so to speak, see what the gross speed is then. That's no way to practice long-term, but it can be a useful variant occasionally.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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cheers :) i don't do any real focussed practice anymore, so the speed won't be improving as much as it might, but things are coming along pretty well, and i'm not feeling restrained by the switch any longer, so that's all good.

i actually felt like i was mucking up too much on that run as i was doing it, but obviously the stats disagree.

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It seems that your accuracy there was pretty much on the mark. Anything less than 98% hurts although some live with it. Anything above is just swell.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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