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    Passwords and mistyping

    • Started by padde
    • 9 Replies:
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    • Registered: 05-Sep-2006
    • Posts: 40

    Hi ppl.

    So, whenever I write I just look at the screen, no problem, I see everything, quickly fixing mistakes.

    Except. When I enter passwords I dont see anything and I tend to mistype alot, even though I at most times use the same passwords everywhere. The problem is that to be able to input these passwords I MUST start with both hands in home-row position. I simply can not write anything if this is not the starting position..

    Any tips on how to type with less error when using for instance one hand or when "hunting and peckering"?

    I think the issue is that I have learnt to type with hands in home row, and that I dont have a "mental image" of which keys are which if I don't always use this position as a starting point.

    Btw, I've been using Colemak since last summer, and it rocks big time!

    Thanks

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,363

    Back when I used Dvorak, I made passwords that were the same in both layouts. Obviously, this is even easier in Colemak since not only AM but QWAHZXCVBM (I didn't miss any I hope?) are now stationary between layouts. (On a side note, I won't use Norwegian punctuation in passwords since I occasionally stumble upon a keyboard set to a US layout - if that won't happen to you then feel free! Same with much of the punctuation.)

    The number row is there for you too, and much of the punctuation. You can substitute letters with numbers to produce words that are easier to remember. Much like +#4+ (0|\||=0051|\|6 13375p34k (that's "that confusing leetspeak", for the readers who haven't met and befriended hardcore net geeks in a few years). I've used the "+" sign as a "T" in passwords, for instance.

    Getting advanced, the whole number row can become letters: tnmRSbVkgl is the coding I use (courtesy of Kurt Bai, the memory wizard) but that particular conversion takes a little twisting to recognize and remember because the row is consonants only (the "0" becoming a loop-script minuscle "l" is worst I guess, or "4" being an "R"; also loopy). The reason I learnt that was the reverse problem: How to remember a lot of digits by converting them to letters and then making words and finally a story out of them. I learnt 100 decimals of Pi with that trick, just to see if I could.  :)

    You can also do like the rune writers of old had to, substituting similar letters for those you don't have. In old runes, "konung" had to be written "kunuk" because they didn't have the rest of those letters as runes (yet). So that's what they did. Y -> I -> 1 or | is an example for our use; or U -> O -> 0.

    So now, if you want to use... say... CHRYSANTHEMUM as a password, you'll end up with something along the lines of ch4|5a2+h3m0m which is Colemak-QWERTY invariant, not at all easy for outsiders to figure out even if they happen to see you typing it in, containing several categories of characters for further increased security (letters, numbers, punctuation) and still possible for you to remember because it is a word. Nice, huh?

    (Yeah, you may not be after such a long password. Just a high-security example there. And for the hackers out there: No, I haven't and will not ever use ch4|5a2+h3m0m as a password since I posted it here, so don't even think of it. Hehe.)

    Last edited by DreymaR (30-Apr-2007 14:22:09)

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    • Registered: 05-Oct-2006
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    Stop the problem at its source:

    ... When I enter passwords I dont see anything and I tend to mistype alot, even though I at most times use the same passwords everywhere.

    Type your passwords in the username/ID box and CTRL + X (cut) and CTRL + V (paste) it into the password box.

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    • From: Jakarta, Indonesia
    • Registered: 04-Jun-2007
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    @NeoMenlo: Problem with that is, someone will easily see your password :P

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    Oh, by the way: Being able to type single-use (and multiple-use) passwords with much less hassle was one of the significant boons of getting myself a physical Colemak keyboard. The worst passwords used to be my net bank's single-use passwords; those are now giving me trouble only on my blank workplace keyboard.  :)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • From: Köln, Germany
    • Registered: 01-Apr-2007
    • Posts: 264

    I sincereley hope that you don't use a blank keyboard for operations! ;D
    That would be quite disturbing!

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    • Registered: 02-Jun-2007
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    NeoMenlo said:

    Stop the problem at its source

    Even more radical (and quick) solution to stop the problem at its source:

    Save your passwords at USB pen. That way you can use a much more secure password, insert the password at the first time, every time, whatever your keyboard layout maybe.

    In my humble bee opinion... some of you could learn a thing or two about what is a secure pasword.
    Here is a pic to meditate.
    638gm8i.gif

    Using just the home row, with 8 letters is a weak password, can be broken in 4 days or less.
    And if using more computers than in that test, even a 10-12 home row password can be broken easily.

    https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm
    This secure site makes randoom passwords, choose the middle one (random printable ASCII characters). And then choose long passwords, like 20 characters.

    Did i helped or made it worse ?

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,363

    Judging from your table, my password is of the 40k+ years variety. It is also easy to remember for me, not physically accessible for anyone stealing a USB stick (or through me losing it - I've found other peoples' sticks) and can be typed easily and equally on Colemak and QWERTY. I guess I won't need more than this? (And no, knowing all these things about my password won't help anyone crack it I believe.)

    I'd really not recommend putting passwords on a USB pen. That is so unsafe I cannot begin to describe it.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • Registered: 02-Jun-2007
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    DreymaR, hi :)
    In my little bee opinion, i beg to differ. I have a pen that is also password protected, so even if you find my pen i would have more than time before you break the password of the pen to change the passwords.

    Is not the pen that is unsafe, is the user. The average person does not has a trained memory. A few years ago i had read a person that was hired to improve the security of at entreprise, tried to find the passwords of all the staff. In a couple of hours he found most of the passwords. Can you guess one password that was very popular? Was this one:
    123

    In a Usb pen you can store a password that can take more than a human life to break, and that can be changed in a snap, and not have to worry about remembering about it.
    ........................................................
    IMPORTANT:
    My weak bee brain is not good at maths, so i wont try to make a new table, but PLEASE, i ask the people that read this thread to notice this:

    the home row is between 10 to 12 letters (i wont mention shift to avoid complicate further). Notice the table i used in not based in the "home row", is based in ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ , at least (wont mention other letters to avoid complicate) and that is =26, that is more than twice the number of variables in the home row.
    So if you use 9 letters of the home row, you get a much less secure password than shown in that table.

    And that table is based in a fast computer, if you put 20 computers to break a password, it finishes much quicker.

    Dreymar you have a good memory, better than mine for sure, and i believe better than most. That is good :)

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    Yes, my memory is of the sticky type. But that's not what makes my password(s) good: It's the systems I use to construct passwords that are easy to remember for me but tough to crack, and some tricks for remembering them as well. So even if you don't have a good memory you could get a strong password and remember it too.

    But I agree that one needs to remember way too many passwords these days. Some I use my system on, some I cannot choose and have to remember by "brute force" but most of the less important passwords like web site passwords that don't involve my bank account get one of a very few "collect" passwords. So if someone were to hack my password on this site they might be able to impersonate me on some other sites as well; that's a risk I just feel I have to take to avoid going mad with the number of passwords.

    If your pen's content is strongly encrypted with a strong password, then I suppose it may be a relatively safe way to carry around multiple passwords at the "memory cost" of one. But I'd still be sceptical about the dangers involved. I've coded and messed around with devices enough to get an intuition that your system might be hackable - although I wouldn't know exactly how to.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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