• You are not logged in.

    Chording Your Keyboard

    • Started by cevgar
    • 13 Replies:
    • Reputation: 4
    • Registered: 04-Feb-2010
    • Posts: 149

    Chording Your Keyboard

    EDIT: FYI, this idea came to me after throwing down and deciding to make a serious go at learning to use Plover, the open source steno program. On a more subconscious level, it was probably significantly influenced by ASETNIOP, the ... um ... (goes to website)...'ten input keyboard replacement'. Also known as Chordmak around here. Both Plover and ASETNIOP are awesome, and I recommend y'all check them out.

    Actually describing this as a lesser ASETNIOP would be pretty accurate. The goal here though is not a ten input keyboard, but to reduce finger movement and awkward stretches, without hindering standard keyboard usage. The method proposed will allow typists to never use the bottom row, number row or center keys unless they choose to, as well as provide a way to avoid same finger combos. Even if it is the same letter.

    Now back to the original post.

    Why:

    Reduced finger travel. Reduced same finger. Reduced key searching. Reduced work (maybe).


    What: The Basics. Goals.

    Easy, consistent chording rules that doesn't interfere with daily usage (aside from games) or take years to learn.

    Non-chorded keystrikes respond as normal (or as close to normal as possible) so as not to interfere with non chorded typing.

    Multiple chords to get the same results.

    Low keypress chords to account for low key rollover boards. (current max keypress at 4, mostly for symbols)

    Keystrokes only activate upon release of all keys. Mosty so as we don't kill ourselves trying to hit the keys simultaneously.




    How: The Specifics. Proposal.

    (Since most of us have Qwerty printed boards handy, I will use Qwerty examples. Most examples will use capital letters for readability.)

    Rule 0) Not so much a rule as a suggestion. First off, fingers rest on gap between top and home row. This will make travel distance shorter and vertical chords easier. If you have stepped rows on your keyboard... well, just deal with it.


    Rule 1) Single handed chords of two keys respond as a key inwards and/or downwards of the centermost or lowest key. The distance of the key is determined by seperation of keys pressed. Exception: Diagonal chords will respond with the corresponding bottom row diagonal.

    In simpler terms, Pressing the chord QW would result in the letter E as it is one key apart, there by the resulting key is one key inward of the centermost key. Likewise JK would return H. Now ET on the other hand would return U as the chord pressed is two keys apart. That the U is on the other hand does not matter, just that it (U) was the second key inward from the centermost key pressed (T). It is recommended to learn to hit side by side chords with one finger.

    Vertical Chords are struck with the same finger, and will respond as the key below the bottom most key. ex: QA =Z, ED = C, UJ = M, KI = ,

    Diagonal Chords are a combination of the two. For the this example take the chord EF. Down one key, and one key to the right, is B. Or let's say we are typing 'lazy'. In this case we could type the Z with a ES chord (one key down, one to the left) to avoid a same finger on the pinkie. OR we could be silly and use DT, which is one key down, TWO to the left. We could not use FU, because...


    Rule 2) Chords with a key from the opposite hand will be reversed, or send the key from the outside or top edge of the chord. (ex: horizontal QW = E, QWK = Tab, vertical WS = X, WSJ = 2, SR = nothing, SRL = 6, K; = H, K;F = Enter)


    Rule 3) Chords with a space (or shift) will send the key in its shifted state. (ex: not only er = t, er[Space] = T, WDK = 1, WDK[Space] = !, BUT ALSO r[Space] = R)


    Rule 4) Chords with any bottom row key will act as backspace. (ex: DC = Backspace, NM = Backspace, V[Space] = Backspace.) With the opposite hand rule, it becomes delete. (ex: CM = Delete)



    Examples: Chords captialized and seperated by hyphens. Asterisks for key on opposite hand.

    Qwerty

    The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.
    ER[Space]-JK-e qui-ED-k JO-row-JI fox j-IO-UJ-ps o-RF-er ER-JK-e la-SE-UI do-DF.

    Note: Jump is pretty interesting in the number of ways that same-finger could be avoided with chords. J, U and M all have 3 chords to choose from. Mix and match. Collect them all!


    Ted looks depressed.
    [Space]UO-e-AS l-UI*-oks AS-epr-QW-DF*-s

    Note: Ted could have been spelled ER-QW-d, and looks depressed was a silly way to show off double letter without resorting to same finger. Original sentence used sounds = sou-WF-ds. No, I don't expect anyone to be this clever when actually typing.



    Colemak

    Their scarfs.
    T[Space]-NE-IO-NE*-r AS-SF-arf-AS.

    Note: Colemak with it's low bottom row, middle column and same finger usage is pretty solid, so coming up with an example was a bit of a stretch. For those that hate the H stretch, but also want to reduce same finger, 'their' requires some significant juggling. All the left hand combinations require the T or a `F chord (which isn't planned, and also stupid), both right hand combo's require the E. So then the E has to be substituted. Which leads to IO. Granted this could have been done with an RD, but avoiding the middle column is part of the appeal, and the NE-IO chord roll gets easier with practice, especially once you learn to hit the horizontal chords with one finger.



    Where: As in 'where do I get it?'.

    Ah, well, the better question would be When. Or perhaps even Who. Because, ME is not likely. I take to coding like... I dunno, a duck to metaphors... or something.

    Also, based on the previous sentence, I am apparently a duck. Which might explain why I don't take well to coding, and use circular reasoning.

    And why I have not supplied shiny pictures that would make this look a lot less like a blank wall of incomprehension.

    *sigh*

    Should I ever have (make, have made, have donated, steal) a working model, and it isn't embarrassingly bad, I'll post it here. (while drunk)


    Anyways, I hereby open this topic for ridicule!

    Last edited by cevgar (07-Sep-2013 15:14:45)
    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 04-Apr-2013
    • Posts: 538

    I'm concerned as to just how ergonomic "vertical chords" are.  That's the same reason I never really pursued plover on the keyboard.

    Also, instead of going for rare letters like "z" (in english, anyway), chords really ought to correspond to common words that we can type right away, as well as special characters that we want to use often.  It's a little concerning whether this would just end up reimplementing an ad hoc, informally specified, bug-ridden stenotype in the long term.

    As for implementation, you might very well start with plover as a base.  Or maybe it's much easier than I'm thinking and that would just be overkill.

    Last edited by lalop (07-Sep-2013 17:02:13)
    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 4
    • Registered: 04-Feb-2010
    • Posts: 149

    Interestingly enough, I came up with the idea after rediscovering and playing with Plover for a while (which is awesome and I highly recommend everyone checks out. As I think I already did, when I first found it about a year ago). I had even written the proposal up with the thought of, as you suggested, using Plover as the base (EDIT: Though AutoHotKey would probably be easier). Plover was what convinced me that the vertical chords really aren't so bad. After posting I recognized that there might be more that a little of ASETNIOP in the design as well. I'll edit the original post to give credit to both projects.

    As for this project, the point was more or less to get away from the thought that chords need to be used replace keyboard function or keystrokes. In a way, it is far more like Half-Qwerty. Learning ASETNIOP well enough to get benefit from it would probably take a month, and it would mostly be for mobile devices. The top row is fairly easy to type on, I see no need to get rid of it. Learning Plover, ...yeah, that will take a bit longer. This little chord project, maybe a couple hours to a couple days. You already know the board and where keys are in relation to one another, so there is practically no memorization required, it makes things marginally easier, and, it doesn't trip you up if you just want to go back to typing normally. There is no pressure to use the chords, or worrying about the efficiency of using one chord or another, as it isn't saving keystrokes. It just gives options.

    Also it saves me the hassle of trying to come up with not only a couple thousand chords to make it even moderately meaningful, but also an efficient and easy to remember system so users don't have to constantly check the dictionary. As you said, that would more or less be reinventing stenography, for no real perceivable purpose.

    Did I mention the lack of memorization?

    Last edited by cevgar (07-Sep-2013 15:24:19)
    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 04-Apr-2013
    • Posts: 538

    Best not admit any inspiration from ASETNIOP, since it's patent-encumbered and that could be used to bite the project in the far future.   Chorded keys are hardly ASETNIOP's original idea in either case - the stenotype itself uses those.

    In my experience (those rare times I use windows) AHK hasn't really been responsive enough for normal typing.  I wonder if a mere dictionary config for plover would be enough, or if the default keys are hardcoded in.

    Even if vertical chords "aren't so bad" (which I would still take issue with), they are still worse than the other chords since they are one-finger.  Fortunately, because your spec has many duplicate functions, there is plenty of room to fit an alternative in.  The most obvious one is probably to make [qwerty] v/n into "modifiers" for the other hand, so for example:

    nf -> v
    ns -> x

    and for the other hand,

    vl -> .
    vj -> m

    This would simply replace your backspace specification for those keys.



    I think much of your specification has too low a work/reward ratio, however.  Sure, it's cool to be able to aim at far-away letters, but this is mostly superfluous in actual typing.  Rather, we should pick off the low-hanging fruit and just get a solution that's "good enough", leaving us room to implement possibly other additions.  Here's one suggestion:

    Lowest hanging fruit: bottom row, as described above.  ru, or gh are also possible "alternative bottom-row modifiers" to vn.

    Next-lowest hanging: the tygh square.  Those can be hit by horizontal er,ui,df,jk respectively.

    Next-lowest hanging: The qp corners.  Those can be hit by we and io, respectively.

    And that's it for the letter modifiers.  r/u, while tempting to chord, are probably not difficult enough to try and do so.

    The good news: removing so many letter chords has left us with plenty to go for the non-letters.  Because ef is no longer targeted toward b, it can now be targeted outward toward 2/@.  So upward would be the new diagonal chord targets.  A similar outward targeting gives us l; -> ', ;k -> ret.  Unfortunately, the right side is quite crowded so some chords for the []\+-backsapce symbols might have to be ad hoc, but you can't have everything.

    So up to this point, letters, numbers and symbols have been implemented as 2-key, same-hand chords (3 counting space).  The 3-key, different hand chords can now be used for modified keys (ctrl, alt, altgr).  And/or for starting to implement a dictionary.  And/or as something similar to Dreymar's extend layers (e.g. f+ijkl as the arrow keys), which would probably be my preference.

    Last edited by lalop (07-Sep-2013 20:01:09)
    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 4
    • Registered: 04-Feb-2010
    • Posts: 149

    Thanks for the feedback. We... don't agree on a few issues. But that is a good thing, right? Means that at least we aren't both wrong! Or, more likely, that we are both differently wrong. ... Well, one of us should be LESS wrong, and THAT, friends, is what we call progress. (Yeah, I don't know where that little peptalk BS came from either. But it is kind of amusing, so I'll leave it.)



    I've emailed the ASETNIOP fellow a few times. Doesn't strike me as the type to kick up a fuss about a project as different as this. I'd be more worried about my mentioning HalfQwerty. Talk about cutthroat.

    Still a valid point. Do you know a better phrase than "inspired by" and/or a less legally threatening but still known project to draw similarities to?



    I do see the potential  to adding V and N as an optional way to substitute creating a vertical chord. It doesn't interfere much with the rest of the system, and it does have the added advantage of not being linear, so the substitue + home row = bottom row, while substitue + top row = number row. Ex: ND = C, NE = 3. 5 and 6 pose a problem, Maybe NER=5 and VUI=6? 

    I'm not convinced about V and N as the modifiers though. I'd be inclined to hit them with the thumb, which would be awkward, and hitting them with the pointers would somewhat defeat the purpose. Well, I guess the best optioon is to just make the whole center column GHVBN all modifiers (if in a chord, and the only key pressed on that hand) and let the folks at home choose.



    As for the QP corners and outward shift on the right side, I see your point, but I'm not in favor. As it is  Q and P can still be hit with WE and IO respectively, as long as you hit a key with the opposite hand as the reversal modifier. Similarly ' (L;), Enter (K;), [(OP), ](IP), \(UP), -(PL,OJ), =(PK) and even Backspace(PK) can ALL be hit with by adding the reversal modifier. It is more keys, but is clean and straight forward. Plus most of our typing is done on the main 30, so chords in direction of the main 30 should take priority.

    On the other hand, crossing over to the other side of the board isn't really necissary. I think all inwards is easier to learn, and is more flexible, but it could be altered so that only the ER, DF, UI and JK chords work inwards, and all other horizontal chords work outwards. That would work pretty well for the right hand, but it wouldn't make much sense on the left. On Qwerty that AS=D is too good to give up.

    All horizontal chords except WE, UI, and JK work to the right is an option, but its lack of symetry irks me.

    Maybe adjacent chords go inwards and larger chords go outwards? No that would mean ET=Q and YI for P. Unless larger chords started off with one less distance. For example ER=T WR=Q, IO=U, UO=P, K;=' and J;=Enter. Backslash would need YP, and it would be mighty confusing with diagonals, though. Perhaps use your suggested upwards diagonals for adjacent keys and downwards for further apart? That would give you your bizarre EF=2, buit I'd still get diagonals WF/JP=B and JO/QF=N. Not my favorite idea, but it has the most potential, and is consistent. Tell me what you think.

    Last edited by cevgar (07-Sep-2013 23:11:28)
    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 04-Apr-2013
    • Posts: 538

    I didn't realize half-qwerty was an actual thing.  I'm not sure there is a safe way that a lawyer couldn't turn against you, so I would just refrain entirely.  Remember, even if (and that's a big if) the original guy is cool, patents can be sold (cough oracle, SCO, patent trolls in general).

    cevgar said:

    On Qwerty that AS=D is too good to give up.

    Low hanging fruit.  D is already on the home row, don't need an additional chord for it.  Sure, any additional option technically improves the keyboard, but in this case it's probably not worth it.  In my rationale, I consider asdfwer jkl;uio to be "easily enough" hit from the home row, with r and u as edge-cases.

    cevgar said:

    hitting [v/n] with the pointers would somewhat defeat the purpose.

                 
    Not if you buy the workman argument: the hands' natural curl makes those two (and only those two, with b being a bit of a stretch) bottom-row keys easy to hit.  Even if they aren't used as "bottom row modifiers", they are still good enough to try to find another use.

    cevgar said:

    As it is  Q and P can still be hit with WE and IO respectively, as long as you hit a key with the opposite hand as the reversal modifier.

    True, but wasteful.  That would not allow implementation of a second modifier layer, like (some finger on the other hand)+ijkl for arrow keys, which would be much more useful than having an alternate way to hit r.  The main goal of my reductionist spec was to give additional space for such things.

    cevgar said:

    Maybe adjacent chords go inwards and larger chords go outwards? No that would mean ET=Q and YI for P. Unless larger chords started off with one less distance. For example ER=T WR=Q, IO=U, UO=P, K;=' and J;=Enter. Backslash would need YP, and it would be mighty confusing with diagonals, though. Perhaps use your suggested upwards diagonals for adjacent keys and downwards for further apart?   That would give you your bizarre EF=2, buit I'd still get diagonals WF/JP=B and JO/QF=N. Not my favorite idea, but it has the most potential, and is consistent. Tell me what you think.

    I would start the larger chords with one less distance, so wr -> q.  Though, I don't think it beats my original we -> q, since the index finger has some trouble reaching up.

    Aside from the caveats above, seems ok to me.

    Ideally, this program would be configurable enough that no one would have to compromise.  Meh.

    Last edited by lalop (08-Sep-2013 10:52:30)
    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 7
    • Registered: 21-Apr-2010
    • Posts: 818

    I think this idea is radically different from the mirrored typing idea.

    I haven't explored all the mini-chords you've posted.  I remember reading that sliding fingers is a no no.  Sorry that I can't back that up with anything, but it's probably a hardware related issue.  I know my Dell does not facilitate a vertical one finger swipe, as it likes a direct centre hit on the keys.

    Introducing the chords makes the layout problem even trickier to some extent.  As now you've got to factor in comfortable finger patterns, that may be at odds with original layout designs.  I like the idea of retrofitting some chords in.  But what would I have them do?   Do you think of them as effectively programmable function keys?  Chording a couple of keys for one letter feels a little crappy too.   And the problem of chording for frequent words is that you've probably got those frequently used words down pat anyhow.

    Edit: I finally get the idea, after re-reading your OP.   I like the methology behind it.  But I think it requires you to look at the keyboard or at least have the layout fixed in your brain.  There's too much working out for my brain to do for this to be comfortable.  But if the keyboard was smaller or radial this idea could work.  Still too many keys I think.

    I don't really enjoy chording at all on a standard keyboard.  Once upon a time I would have lept on the idea of chording.  Perhaps my keyboards are just too stiff for this to be at all comfortable.

    The standard keyboard is the sucky bit in my eyes.  I've a few ideas on how to utilise a touch typing layout on a far simpler device.  I like the idea of reducidng the amount of keys.  Frogpad and Asetniop look like too much work though.  One handed typing has many benefits.  I think there is middle ground to be had between 25 keys and one pointer (dasher).   Dasher looks so impressive I wouldn't be surprised if you could knock up something magical with two pointers.

    Regarding chords and inputting, I'd favour mnemonics.  Something like typing syllables (like Korean).  Which is probably closer to steno.  It's got to be very easy.

    I'd call your idea something like the Chorded Transposer.

    Last edited by pinkyache (08-Sep-2013 12:02:04)

    --
    Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 4
    • Registered: 04-Feb-2010
    • Posts: 149

    @lalop

    Point, E and D are on the same finger, and also a very common digraph. As such, AS=D is awesome.


    I only buy the Workman argument that the home row of the center column is worse than we give it credit for. Workman also believes W is easier than R. That alone is enough to make the whole idea suspect.


    Using the opposite hand as a separate modifier layer is interesting, but you could just as easily break it down. Pointers for reversal, middle for modifiers, ring for navigation, whatever. The arrow keys probably wouldn't work so well with the current keystrike on release idea. As you say, the chords work-to-result ratio is backwards, so hitting the left or right arrow chord and the opposite hand modifier a dozen times would be significantly worse than just going over to the arrow keys. Chording Home, End, PageUp, PageDn, and a slew of Ctrl Alt combos, would be worth it, but again, memorization.


    Your index finger has trouble reaching up? Well T and R must really suck for you. Really I put this one down to practice. I have a much easier time hitting A than I do ; and it is effectively the same key.


    Thinking more, I'm wondering if the adjacent diagonals shouldn't go down and the seperated diagonals go up. I like the adjacent diagonals going up because it is easer to keep the numbers in order, but it requires a [; chord for =.



    @pinkyache

    Ooh, The Chorded Transposer. Brilliant! It is official, if I ever get around to doing this, I'm calling it The Chorded Transposer. Or a variation there of. Perfect description and doesn't sound too shabby either. (and will hopefully disabuse people of the notion that it means remember thousands of chords for two letter words)



    Well, the concept isn't really sliding fingers, but hitting both the top and middle row key, with the same finger, at the same time. It starts out pretty horrible, but with practice (and the right keyboard) it gets better. I've only been playing with Plover for about a week now, and I don't think much of it anymore.

    lalop had an issue with this as well, and proposed using the V and N keys as substitutes for vertical chording. You can read up on it above.



    The examples in the OP were pretty overkill. They took some thinking to find chords that would avoid same finger. Still, some of the more common, or more useful chords would be easy enough to adopt. For Qwerty the ER=T, JK=H and AS=D would probably be memorized even before the bottom row chords. Except for whatever we end up using for B, Enter or Backspace. (Again, we are tossing around ideas, see the last paragraph of my last post)

    Either way, as I said, it really is a no pressure option. I figure maybe you start typing and use a few chords, then get into what you are writing and go back to typing normally. And you know what? No harm done. Someone else uses your computer while the Chorded Transposer is running, and they never even notice.



    You summed up the problem with chording nicely. It sounds great in theory, but then you get into it and... it kinda isn't. Chorded keystrokes are always slower than a single keystrokes. Then there doesn't seem to be much point to use a two key chord to write a two letter digraph when you can just hit both letters at the same time and have autocorrect sort it out for you. So you ramp it up to trigraphs, but there you find a rapid drop in frequency, so you... etc.

    In the end you just need to come to terms with what the advantages are, and most importantly what they aren't. Yes, steno uses chords, and yes steno is mind mindbogglingly fast. But steno is A) a phonetic shorthand system. Often with several ways to spell the same word. And B) can require up to 16 keys pressed per keystroke.

    Let me repeat that, UP TO 16 KEYS PER KEYSTROKE.

    I haven't seen the 16 keyer myself, but the Plover online demo page has the example of 'gauge'. In steno 'gauge' takes 11 keys. On the left hand (beginning of the word) the ring and middle finger hit TKPW as a chord to form G, the left thumb hits A while the right thumb hits EU to make a chord for a long A, and the right hand hits (again with the middle and ring fingers) PBLG for J. End result is 'TKPW  A  EU  PBLG' which is read GAJ and is then translated to english by the computer. The qwerty translation of this monstrosity is 'WSED C NM IKOL'. All at once.

    Pretty scary, eh? So why do it? While there are a lot more keys PRESSED, there are drastically fewer keySTROKES. Since each steno entry appears as its own line, there is no need for a space (or need to delete a space if you choose to add punctuation, the computer handles it). Gauge, as it comes out of a steno machine, is the equivalent of six characters in Qwerty. That is six characters that all have to be hit in sequence, where the steno typist only has to hit one.

    So, yes, the chords take longer than a single character stroke, but in this instance the steno typist can take six times as long to complete a single keystroke and still match a qwerty typist in speed.

    And THAT is the advantage of steno. Heck that isn't even including briefs

    As and aside, words per minute is calculated based on an average word length of five characters, so that speed advantage is more the norm than the exception. Conversly that gives us a way to judge equivalent qwerty typing speeds. The world record for steno is (as far as I know) 360 WPM. Lets simplify and say there is one stroke per word. That gives us 360 keystrokes per minute. Divide by average word length, call it six characters (including space) which will give us our Qwerty equivalent. The worlds fastest stenographer is hitting chords at a rate equivalant to a Qwerty typist hitting keys at 60 wpm. Court reporters need something like 250 WPM, which is chording at something like the speed of a 40 WPM Qwerty Typist.



    Ok, now back on topic.

    I've played with Dasher, but only the mouse version. While undeniably awesome, and fun, if I've got a cat on my lap and can't reach the keyboard I'll probably go for a plain old on screen keyboard. A Dasher with two cursors, controlled perhaps by something like a XBox game pad, would blow my mind. Or perhaps this could be tied in to your one handed idea. Dasher for typing and off hand on the keyboard for modifiers.



    On typing syllables, that is more or less what Steno is. The left hand hits the beginning sound, thumbs handle the vowels, right hand handles the ending. Unfortunately, English isn't really phoentic. There are something like 40 sounds in the English language, but only 26 characters. There for we have words like 'ought' which only has two sounds but is spelled with five letters. This is the principal behind many phonetically based hand written shorthand systems.



    I don't know about Korean, but I belive Japanese Kana are mostly phonetic syllable system. That is 48 characters. Interestingly enough, it would only require something like 15 keys as, broken down, there are five vowels and only nine consonants, and syllables are always consonant-vowel. Unfortuantly, you still need to learn the Kanji, which, from what I understand, 3,000 characters need to be known in order to meet 'basic' literary requirements. Ouch.

    Last edited by cevgar (08-Sep-2013 16:21:16)
    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 04-Apr-2013
    • Posts: 538
    cevgar said:

    Point, E and D are on the same finger, and also a very common digraph. As such, AS=D is awesome.

    I'd forgotten about that.  But we can just assign that as an ad hoc rule, especially if it's the only digraph that benefits.  A small number of ad hoc rules aren't too big a deal.


    cevgar said:

    Thinking more, I'm wondering if the adjacent diagonals shouldn't go down and the seperated diagonals go up. I like the adjacent diagonals going up because it is easer to keep the numbers in order, but it requires a [; chord for =.

    That = sign is indeed a tough one.  I'd suggested that some of the ones on the right might have to end up ad hoc because it's too damn crowded there.  Try not to force the rules too hard.

    cevgar said:

    Using the opposite hand as a separate modifier layer is interesting, but you could just as easily break it down.  Pointers for reversal, middle for modifiers, ring for navigation, whatever. The arrow keys probably wouldn't work so well with the current keystrike on release idea.

    Good idea, and good point.  One possibility is to have space as a "repeat key" for certain, oft repeated keystrokes (whereas it already acts as caps for others).




    cevgar said:

    Your index finger has trouble reaching up? Well T and R must really suck for you. Really I put this one down to practice.

    I only buy the Workman argument that the home row of the center column is worse than we give it credit for. Workman also believes W is easier than R. That alone is enough to make the whole idea suspect.

    It's due to the curve of the fingers.  In home-row position, the index finger rests "just right" on the f and curves downwards, rather than upwards.  On the other hand, the middle and ring fingers are just a little bit too long for the home row, which causes them to reach towards the w/e keys (many people rest them halfway between the home and top row).  Thus, w is most certainly easier than r.

    Incidentally, the center column being bad is the one workman argument I don't buy.  Though I was originally convinced by the theory, I found my index fingers to reach sideways without any issue in practice.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 7
    • Registered: 21-Apr-2010
    • Posts: 818

    I doubt I could even strike two keys at the same time with one finger.  You need fat fingers for this or a touch screen or something.   You'll just need to write the paper now, a proposed title for you: Chord keyboard layout transposal for the fat fingered.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv1w9bg3bMM

    --
    Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 4
    • Registered: 04-Feb-2010
    • Posts: 149
    davkol said:

    You're sort of expected to use Dasher either with a touchscreen/tablet, or eye tracking.

    From the Dasher website:

    Dasher is an information-efficient text-entry interface, driven by natural continuous pointing gestures. Dasher is a competitive text-entry system wherever a full-size keyboard cannot be used - for example,

    - when operating a computer one-handed, by joystick, touchscreen, trackball, or mouse;
    - when operating a computer with zero hands (i.e., by head-mouse or by eyetracker);
    - on a palmtop computer;
    - on a wearable computer.

    The eyetracking version of Dasher allows an experienced user to write text as fast as normal handwriting - 29 words per minute; using a mouse, experienced users can write at 39 words per minute.

    Funny thing, but MOUSE is at the top of that list. Right there on the same line as all the other pointing devices. I'm also not seeing a wpm for touchscreens. I wonder which input device has had more testing.

    Last edited by cevgar (08-Sep-2013 21:13:55)
    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 4
    • Registered: 04-Feb-2010
    • Posts: 149

    @davkol: *snort* Believe what you like.

    @pinkyache: I can chord two adjacent keys with a pencils eraser end on most keyboards. Are your finger tips smaller than a pencil's eraser? I never said comfortable, I just said not THAT bad.

    @lalop: Never mind about the =. It occurred to me that it would be covered with the V number row drop and a UP chord.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 7
    • Registered: 21-Apr-2010
    • Posts: 818

    @cevgar, it's just about doable on my laptop.  Not at all possible on my mechanical.

    @davkol,  I wouldn't get too down on the mouse at least it's an elegant simple design.  And if you flip it on it's back, it's a trackball!  Whereas the standard keyboard (or a lot of implementations), is just plain sucky (IMHO).   You'd probably be able to control dasher with two seasaws better than using a mouse.

    Last edited by pinkyache (09-Sep-2013 08:33:33)

    --
    Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 7
    • Registered: 21-Apr-2010
    • Posts: 818

    (Would be great to colate all these input methods - and variants - somewhere.)

    --
    Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

    Offline
    • 0