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    Typing Speed Progress

    • Started by Linkbane
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    I've looked at Colemak for a while, and although switching from Dvorak isn't in my head yet, as I still have much to improve as a typist.
    Mainly, I'd like to ask how progression speed went for very-high speed typists. I started Dvorak in November 2012, and between May and June (about 1.5 months in all) I was unable to type due to not having a working computer.
    I typed at the 80-90 range with QWERTY, and I achieved 100 wpm in early February, and now I'm floating with an average a little under 130, with a top of 147. However, I wanted to see if such progression speed is normal or even faster with Colemak, and effects on accuracy. Because Colemak apparently uses bounces and rolls rather than alternation, it is said to be easier on the hands, but I find that with my fingers as they are, rolls, especially between several keys, are slower than just pressing the keys with two different hands.

    So, what is the consensus on learning speed, and how fast are the top Colemak typists? I haven't found any Colemak typists of note on 10fastfingers (found one or two), and I know that there are some real speed demons. Show me light, Colemak users!

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    Main consensus here is that you will get back to your Qwerty speed in three months (~90 days) but with more comfort.

    If you type fast in Qwerty you will type at least with the same speed in Colemak. The fastest speed depends only on your individual muscle strength, finger lengths, nervous speed etc.

    For fastest speed, check hi-games.net with plenty of 100+wpm Colemak typists there.

    Good luck.

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    Three months? Because I hear stories on geekhack of regaining speed after a month or a month and a half with Dvorak/Colemak. It only took me about a month, but that's because I practiced over an hour daily, and continue to do so.
    But I mean, that wasn't particularly helpful. 100+ isn't particularly impressive, that's no barrier to QWERTY at all. I'm thinking more like 120/130+ typists using punctuation, or 140150+ without. Anyone?

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    If it took you a month with Dvorak, then it will take you a month with Colemak with the same time each day for practising.

    The stories is various about the converting length. It depends on each individual, but it is the same for different layouts.

    Max speed doesn't depend on layout. If all computers users used Colemak, then the top record would be ~220wpm with Sean Wrona on top, as usual.

    Qwerty is on top now because it has massive fan base.

    Last edited by Tony_VN (11-Oct-2013 05:03:39)
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    Tony_VN said:

    If it took you a month with Dvorak, then it will take you a month with Colemak with the same time each day for practising.

    The stories is various about the converting length. It depends on each individual, but it is the same for different layouts.

    Max speed doesn't depend on layout. If all computers users used Colemak, then the top record would be ~220wpm with Sean Wrona on top, as usual.

    But apparently, Colemak is easier to switch from Dvorak, right? Because it switches less keys?
    And I would differ in that statement. At some point I think that Wrona is limited by the physical speed that his hands are forced to travel, and is slower because of it. He could possibly achieve higher speeds using a Colemak/Dvorak.
    However, what I was not expecting to hear is that Colemak does not improve speed.

    What I would like to ask is if Colemak is designed for comfort (having less alternation) while Dvorak was designed for typing speed (high alternation).

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    Comfort is the trademark for all alternative layouts. It is just that Dvorak and Colemak bring comfort in different ways. 

    For typing speed, most Colemak users' speed is faster than their old Qwerty speed, but not much. Even Sean Wrona would type in Colemak a bit faster if he could practise at least 10 years, just as he has done everyday with Qwerty.

    Mostly typing tests are only 2 minutes or less, so you can type fast then rest. For such short time burst, layout does not matter. Qwerty users would be more tired while doing so, but all we care is the top records.

    For longer time, Colemak/Dvorak would win over Qwerty because of the comfort. That feeling of comfort is not recorded, however. Only felt.

    Last edited by Tony_VN (11-Oct-2013 05:18:01)
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    I suppose I see what you mean, that's an objective way of looking at it. Perhaps we could say that Wrona is equivalent to a high-jumper using the straddle; learning a worse technique, but still being exceptionally good with it. Now if we gave Barbara Blackburn a modern keyboard, I think that Mr. Wrona would be out of a job.

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    Hard to say. I don't think that Sean Wrona would necessarily do much better with Colemak. His technique transcends normal touch typing as is the case with most of the fastest typists, so he'd have to relearn a lot of words in the new layout rather than just the letters. And that's a big undertaking. Similarly, I don't think it's possible to speculate what Barbara Blackburn would've gotten out of today's typing possibilities. At these performance levels it becomes very individual and I don't think that even QWERTY is all bad once you optimize your technique for it. Well, given the number of very fast QWERTY typists that's actually proven.

    Colemak is about less movement, and more comfort and rolls. Dvorak about the same, but more relearning and hand alteration preferred to rolls. Both are primarily more comfortable, and likely (but not quite proven!) to be potentially faster than QWERTY. It's also pleasing to write on a layout that's properly thought out! :)

    Last edited by DreymaR (11-Oct-2013 10:08:38)

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    > 100+ isn't particularly impressive

    Really?  I think that's other worldly!

    My thoughts are that it takes a lot of practice to gain speed in a layout.  A finger/typing pattern that you've got down pat under Qwerty might not even occur in an alternative layout.   Digraphs and common word elements have to be learned.  And for me at least, it's only after typing these for a couple of years that they really sink in to the point that you can accelerate with them.   The idea that you can reach your Qwerty speeds in a new layout in a few months sounds pretty incredible to me.

    I can only assume that fast typists with such lucid finger agility have a skill that transfers extremely well to practicing and accelerating with another layout (if these accounts are true).

    --
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    I mean, a hundred is good, but it doesn't take much time to reach it, given regular practice. I can say that almost every day since I've started, I've practiced for a while, many days over an hour just touch typing for speed, if not word processing and other practice. It took me about three months, and I reached almost 1.5x that speed in about half a year more, so I find it unimpressive, in the manner that Sean Wrona would find my abilities rather unimpressive given his much superior level.

    Honestly, speed typing to me is being able to compose the words and have them drawn up from memory as fast as possible. Most of that is due to muscle memory, but some of it could possibly be just brainpower.

    >The idea that you can reach your Qwerty speeds in a new layout in a few months sounds pretty incredible to me.

    It's all in the practice. I would practice for over two hours almost daily when I started learning Dvorak, and that let me grow. Now I have to practice less because of overpractice and carpal tunnel (given that most probably take longer to reach 140+), so I can take more time to refine every aspect of time-saving.

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    For practical purposes, 50wpm is enough, since you have to think what to type. Secretaries may need faster speed to do dictation, though.

    Faster than that, then typing becomes a sport.

    Your typing skills are exercised in several phases

    1. Muscle memory:
    You can touch type what's on screen.

    2. Muscle memory integrated with brain's hearing part.
    You can touch type what are being dictated to you.

    3. Muscle memory integrated with brain's thinking part.
    You can touch type what you are thinking.

    4. Muscle memory integrated with the whole YOU
    You sit there, do nothing, just watch and adore yourself. Your brain and your fingers do it all.

    To reach that final level where your typing skills are effortlessly integrated with all parts of your brain, it would take several years.

    Last edited by Tony_VN (12-Oct-2013 10:56:59)
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    Informative, very informative. Thanks for that.
    But I'd say 50 wpm is a bit low. I think that when I'm typing out forum posts, I'm generally typing a pretty constant 80-100wpm, unless I really need to think of what I'm saying, like when I'm writing stories or poetry.
    These days it seems like quick typing is very useful, and gamers sometimes need to type out messages quickly (say in LoL), so I'd say that for general use, 50 wpm is about all you need, but for more keyboard-active, I would put the bar more at 80.
    Hopefully I'll reach that final phase sometime!

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    Obviously bigger is better. But I've never been an 80 WPM typist and I don't feel hampered at any speed above 60 WPM. It's what you're used to I guess.

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