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    Colemak on Apple JIS : problem with O

    • Started by kfmfe04
    • 7 Replies:
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    • Registered: 25-Nov-2013
    • Posts: 8

    Hi,

    I'm just starting to learn homerow on an Apple JIS keyboard.

    During practice, I found that I wasn't able to type an O (capital o), so I checked the keyboard viewer and indeed, if I do a shift-o, I get the + symbol, which is the original JIS mapping.  Oddly enough, the only way for me to get an O was to do a caps-lock first.

    Does anyone know if this is the expected behavior on a JIS keyboard?

    If it is, indeed a bug, does anyone know where that + is supposed to go?

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    Sounds like a bad virtual key mapping. Are you sure it's the keyboard itself (i.e., plugging in another type of keyboard will work)?

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    DreymaR said:

    Sounds like a bad virtual key mapping. Are you sure it's the keyboard itself (i.e., plugging in another type of keyboard will work)?

    I tried the JIS built into a MacBook Pro and ran into this issue.
    I tried a wireless JIS with an iMac and ran into this issue.
    I tried an USB Filco ANSI with an iMac and it mapped fine.

    My "ugly hack" at this point is to use the caps-lock.  In that case, I can type an O.

    I just filed a bug report with Apple.

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,361

    Oo. Let's see - the Mac uses XKB underlying OSx – right? The problem would then be that the JIS uses a different keycodes file than the run-of-the-mill pc10# boards do (they use evdev or xfree86 default). The Oo key should have the key alias <AC10>.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    DreymaR said:

    Oo. Let's see - the Mac uses XKB underlying OSx – right? The problem would then be that the JIS uses a different keycodes file than the run-of-the-mill pc10# boards do (they use evdev or xfree86 default). The Oo key should have the key alias <AC10>.

    Thanks for that quick reply.

    Following instructions here:

    https://apple.stackexchange.com/questio … 5402#45402

    I downloaded Ukelele to take a look at the keycodes.  It says the keycode for o is 41.
    I am trying to figure out to remap the shift-modifier+o-key to capital-O now...

    Last edited by kfmfe04 (25-Nov-2013 19:38:57)
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    Thanks, DreymaR, for your encouragement!

    I was able to follow the directions and use Ukele to fix the mapping problem, but it was a little ugly.

    Colemak is well-defined for a ANSI keyboard, but I am not sure what the JIS keyboard equivalent is.

    AFAIK, whether intentional or not, Apple's implementation attempted to keep the keys as much in their original positions as possible, but failed at the O.

    That O key is interesting in JIS because it is originally mapped to ;/+ and in Apple's implementation of Colemak it ends up as o/+.

    Now that I've changed it to o/O, where should that + go?

    This opens a can-of-worms, so I've decided to make the rest of the JIS keyboard map as closely to ANSI Colemak as possible to avoid further confusion or loss of keys.

    You have two options here:

    A. Use Ukelele to map those keys the way you want to solve this o/+ problem.

    B. Use the code I have below (I can't seem to add attachments here, so I will copy-paste)
    B1. Put the contents into a file like ~/Desktop/Colemak_JIS.keylayout
    B2. sudo cp Colemak_JIS.keylayout /Library/Keyboard\ Layouts/
    B3. reboot the machine
    B4. Keyboard Preferences > + > Others > Colemak_JIS
    B5. enjoy

    Tested on Mavericks 10.9 on a 2009 mbp JIS keyboard

    One other quirky note: also make sure you get the US keyboard - it seems that coming back from Colemak/Colemak_JIS, if you don't pick US keyboard first, you won't get a clean transition back to JIS - Romaji/Hiragana/Katakana.

    I suspect Apple will have to come with a proper Colemak_JIS, if anyone can actually define what that is.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
    <!DOCTYPE keyboard PUBLIC "" "file://localhost/System/Library/DTDs/KeyboardLayout.dtd">
    <!--Created by Ukelele version 2.2.6 on 2013-11-26 at 01:25 (GMT+8)-->
    <!--Last edited by Ukelele version 2.2.6 on 2013-11-26 at 02:15 (GMT+8)-->
    <keyboard group="0" id="8841" name="Colemak_JIS" maxout="1">
        <layouts>
            <layout first="0" last="17" modifiers="f4" mapSet="16c"/>
            <layout first="18" last="18" modifiers="f4" mapSet="984"/>
            <layout first="21" last="23" modifiers="f4" mapSet="984"/>
            <layout first="30" last="30" modifiers="f4" mapSet="984"/>
            <layout first="194" last="194" modifiers="f4" mapSet="984"/>
            <layout first="197" last="197" modifiers="f4" mapSet="984"/>
            <layout first="200" last="201" modifiers="f4" mapSet="984"/>
            <layout first="206" last="207" modifiers="f4" mapSet="984"/>
        </layouts>
        <modifierMap id="f4" defaultIndex="7">
            <keyMapSelect mapIndex="0">
                <modifier keys="command?"/>
                <modifier keys="anyShift? caps? command"/>
            </keyMapSelect>
            <keyMapSelect mapIndex="1">
                <modifier keys="anyShift caps?"/>
            </keyMapSelect>
            <keyMapSelect mapIndex="2">
                <modifier keys="caps"/>
            </keyMapSelect>
            <keyMapSelect mapIndex="3">
                <modifier keys="anyOption"/>
            </keyMapSelect>
            <keyMapSelect mapIndex="4">
                <modifier keys="anyShift caps? anyOption command?"/>
            </keyMapSelect>
            <keyMapSelect mapIndex="5">
                <modifier keys="caps anyOption"/>
            </keyMapSelect>
            <keyMapSelect mapIndex="6">
                <modifier keys="caps? anyOption command"/>
            </keyMapSelect>
            <keyMapSelect mapIndex="7">
                <modifier keys="anyShift caps? option? command? control"/>
                <modifier keys="shift? caps? anyOption command? control"/>
                <modifier keys="caps? anyOption? command? control"/>
            </keyMapSelect>
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                <when state="none" output="A"/>
                <when state="State 1" output="Ä"/>
                <when state="State 3" output="Â"/>
                <when state="State 4" output="À"/>
                <when state="State 5" output="Ã"/>
            </action>
            <action id="6">
                <when state="none" output="F"/>
                <when state="State 1" output="Ë"/>
                <when state="State 3" output="Ê"/>
                <when state="State 4" output="È"/>
            </action>
            <action id="7">
                <when state="none" output="U"/>
                <when state="State 1" output="Ï"/>
                <when state="State 3" output="Î"/>
                <when state="State 4" output="Ì"/>
            </action>
            <action id="8">
                <when state="none" output="K"/>
                <when state="State 5" output="Ñ"/>
            </action>
            <action id="9">
                <when state="none" output="Y"/>
                <when state="State 1" output="Ö"/>
                <when state="State 3" output="Ô"/>
                <when state="State 4" output="Ò"/>
                <when state="State 5" output="Õ"/>
            </action>
            <action id="10">
                <when state="none" output="L"/>
                <when state="State 1" output="Ü"/>
                <when state="State 3" output="Û"/>
                <when state="State 4" output="Ù"/>
            </action>
            <action id="11">
                <when state="none" output="J"/>
                <when state="State 1" output="Ÿ"/>
            </action>
            <action id="12">
                <when state="none" output="a"/>
                <when state="State 1" output="ä"/>
                <when state="State 2" output="á"/>
                <when state="State 3" output="â"/>
                <when state="State 4" output="à"/>
                <when state="State 5" output="ã"/>
            </action>
            <action id="13">
                <when state="none" output="f"/>
            </action>
            <action id="14">
                <when state="none" output="u"/>
                <when state="State 1" output="ü"/>
                <when state="State 2" output="ú"/>
                <when state="State 3" output="û"/>
                <when state="State 4" output="ù"/>
            </action>
            <action id="15">
                <when state="none" output="k"/>
            </action>
            <action id="16">
                <when state="none" output="y"/>
                <when state="State 1" output="ÿ"/>
            </action>
            <action id="17">
                <when state="none" output="l"/>
            </action>
            <action id="18">
                <when state="none" output="j"/>
            </action>
            <action id="19">
                <when state="none" output="e"/>
                <when state="State 1" output="ë"/>
                <when state="State 2" output="é"/>
                <when state="State 3" output="ê"/>
                <when state="State 4" output="è"/>
            </action>
            <action id="20">
                <when state="none" output="i"/>
                <when state="State 1" output="ï"/>
                <when state="State 2" output="í"/>
                <when state="State 3" output="î"/>
                <when state="State 4" output="ì"/>
            </action>
            <action id="21">
                <when state="none" output="n"/>
                <when state="State 5" output="ñ"/>
            </action>
            <action id="22">
                <when state="none" output="o"/>
                <when state="State 1" output="ö"/>
                <when state="State 2" output="ó"/>
                <when state="State 3" output="ô"/>
                <when state="State 4" output="ò"/>
                <when state="State 5" output="õ"/>
            </action>
            <action id="23">
                <when state="none" next="State 2"/>
            </action>
            <action id="24">
                <when state="none" next="State 5"/>
            </action>
            <action id="25">
                <when state="none" next="State 1"/>
            </action>
            <action id="26">
                <when state="none" next="State 3"/>
            </action>
            <action id="27">
                <when state="none" output=" "/>
                <when state="State 1" output="¨"/>
                <when state="State 2" output="´"/>
                <when state="State 3" output="ˆ"/>
                <when state="State 4" output="`"/>
                <when state="State 5" output="˜"/>
            </action>
            <action id="28">
                <when state="none" output=" "/>
                <when state="State 1" output="¨"/>
                <when state="State 2" output="´"/>
                <when state="State 3" output="ˆ"/>
                <when state="State 4" output="`"/>
                <when state="State 5" output="˜"/>
            </action>
        </actions>
        <terminators>
            <when state="State 1" output="¨"/>
            <when state="State 2" output="´"/>
            <when state="State 3" output="ˆ"/>
            <when state="State 4" output="`"/>
            <when state="State 5" output="˜"/>
        </terminators>
    </keyboard>
    Last edited by kfmfe04 (26-Nov-2013 14:56:17)
    Offline
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    • Reputation: 214
    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,361

    Yeah, use the [code] tag! :D

    So Apple had actually fumbled the shift mapping for keycode 41? Wow. Something that obvious, strange indeed.

    I thought it might have to do with the "ISO_VK_#" keys as they're called under Windows: Since the ;: key in QWERTY is one of the symbol keys that tend to jump about a bit between keyboard types and national layouts, it can be a bit tricky. Often makes Flash apps fail at supporting Colemak properly for instance.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 25-Nov-2013
    • Posts: 8

    Sorry about that - I've added the code tag.

    In this other thread https://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?id=1776,

    I've added some notes and a link to a photo of Apple's JIS keyboard so you can think through why mapping Colemak isn't so obvious.

    IMHO, you need to think through where all the keys should go, and end up compromising somehow.

    Last edited by kfmfe04 (26-Nov-2013 15:24:05)
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