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A little criticism of Colemak's advocation

  • Started by shaaniqbal
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  • From: London, UK
  • Registered: 09-Nov-2013
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pinkyache said:

Pardon.  I did try out PhaseExpress, with your pxp file.

My emphasis was on practical portability: convention over configuration.

The example I gave, was that of trying to share a personalised dictionary across platforms and applications, which currently I find quite tricky.

We have discussed those very things in this thread. I gave some suggestions and if you could be more specific about problems you have with Phrase Express or another problem, that might be helpful to me and others.

T9-QWERTY - my port of T9 to the PC (a work in progress); T9-MOUSE - COMING SOON
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shaaniqbal said:

Everyone here spends a fair amount of time typing I would imagine.  I would consider someone who types a lot a typist. Who cares what you mean by input efficiency and typing efficiency.

It depends.  If you are working with editing/composition, you end up typing text a lot less than a typist (in the sense of occupation) would.  The bottleneck in the former case is usually your thinking or your editor, rather than your typing efficiency, so it makes sense that one would value the "command efficiency" (being able to execute a lot of commands in few quick keystrokes) over the typing efficiency. 

To look at it another way, conventional wisdom is that one is generally bottlenecked at around 50wpm when composing a text.  Accepting the number for sake of example, since you already type at, what, 150wpm?, there's diminishing returns in trying to make that typing still more efficient.  On the other hand, there's still quite a lot to gain from making editor commands, window navigation commands, etc more efficient.  (This example has some limitations, not taking into account factors like comfort, but hopefully it should provide a base idea of what I'm talking about.)

Again, this is not to downplay typing efficiency, only to point out it's not the only factor, or even the most important factor a lot of the time.

Last edited by lalop (28-Jan-2014 16:31:42)
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My point was pretty much the same as lalop's. There's a lot more to efficiency in keyboard and computer usage than just text input. For me it's a hobby, so I love trying out these sorts of things, but you can't really expect everyone to so readily change to something like this as if it's the only relevant issue (text input efficiency) to someone who has learned Colemak. I hardly see the point in arguing about it.

As for myself, I very much appreciate the contribution and have started implementing the list of words you posted. It will probably take me a few weeks to adapt well and be able to give my thoughts, so I'll shut up until I've tested it more thoroughly.

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To look at it another way, conventional wisdom is that one is generally bottlenecked at around 50wpm when composing a text.  Accepting the number for sake of example, since you already type at, what, 150wpm?

An advantage to shorthand is that you use less energy to type 150WPM. Just like you could argue that Colemak uses less energy than QWERTY.

Yes, there are other ways to improve other aspects of efficiency. A lot of them are quite frequently discussed here, whereas shorthand doesn't get as much attention from what I've seen.

There are a number of arguments for high speed typing as well, Mirabai's site for steno/Plover discusses a few of them.

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Regarding the discussion here on Linux, I must say I'm tempted to try it out again. 
By the way when I say that "I have tried Linux" I mean I've tried a number of distros in the past and wasn't convinced to switch by any of them.
Some I ran off a Live CD and others were installed to HDD.

DamnSmallLinux, Ubuntu, Xandros, and Sabayon are the ones I tried that I remember.

I used to be a fanatic for "lightweight" software. Every program I used, I would try to find the least resource consuming one. uTorrent for torrents, NOD 32 for virus protection, and so on. I'd obsessive compulsively check CPU usage on Task Manager. Back then (around 2006) it made more sense with limited RAM. That quest lead me to DamnSmallLinux which was a 50mb or so image file for a stripped down Linux. I can't remember much about it as this was in my younger days, except that for some reason it only ran as a Live CD and I couldn't install it. Apparently useless if I wanted to save anything. I thought it was at least very cool as a live CD that I could just pop into any computer I used.

Later I heard of Ubuntu, the most popular one at the time. Not sure if it still is. Supposedly it  was the most stable one and "just worked" - except it didn't. I couldn't install drivers for my wifi adapter. I also felt confused doings things from terminal. Instructions I found on the web were unclear and always seemed to assume previous knowledge/experience of the terminal.

I then wanted to try a Linux distro that was the most feature rich and graphically beautiful. That lead me to Sabayon, which I needed the full 4.7GB of a DVD to burn (DVDs were expensive back then, mind). I can't remember much except that it took ages to load and when it did load it was slow or had one problem or other.

Most recently I had the Asus Eee PC 901 netbook (which has a super tiny keyboard - I could type barely moving my hands) which I absolutely loved. It came in two models, Linux with a 20GB SSD drive or Windows XP with  12 GB. So I went for the Linux version which came with a custom Xandros Linux distro. This was fast, stable and "lightweight" but incredibly lacking in features. So I eventually overwrote Xandros with Windows XP. Interestingly, the battery lasted longer on Windows.

I currently dual boot 2x Windows 7, one of which I plan to upgrade to Windows 8. If I do try Linux again, I would need to triple boot. I've never tried that before. Features I would want are hassle free installation, a decent text replacement program, a beautiful GUI interface and compatibility with games.

T9-QWERTY - my port of T9 to the PC (a work in progress); T9-MOUSE - COMING SOON
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shaaniqbal said:

I currently dual boot 2x Windows 7, one of which I plan to upgrade to Windows 8. If I do try Linux again, I would need to triple boot. I've never tried that before. Features I would want are hassle free installation, a decent text replacement program, a beautiful GUI interface and compatibility with games.

If you want this, then you probably shouldn't bother with linux. Depending on what games you want compatibility with, you're going to have a hard time. We now have steam and some games. Browser games aren't a problem of course. WINE can run some popular games for windows pretty well, but it's going to be a total pain to run games through wine. If you can get them working, the performance will be a lot worse unless your hardware is great and you're okay with lower settings depending on the game. What games do you want?

However, gui on linux is much more customizable and can look much better in my opinion. By default, Ubuntu looks good I think. Cinnamon look great too (Mint's primary DE). If you're not interested in spending any amount of time on making things look nice, switching basic themes is much easier than what you have to do on windows.
I've had no problems with autokey for text replacement, and Ubuntu/Mint make installation very easy. If there's not something you're looking for, then there may not really be a reason to bother with a tripleboot. What's the point of dualbooting windows though?

There's not much you should have to do from the terminal. Both mint and ubuntu have gui "app store" for programs. Having to use PPAs to install stuff that wasn't in the official repos was the most annoying thing about aptitude and debian/mint/ubuntu for me. I like arch's aur a lot better. Using ppa is pretty straightforward though, and most places specifically tell you exactly what to paste into terminal, so it really isn't a problem to install programs that aren't in the "app store." I've used 5 distros on two computers without any driver problems, but it's definitely a possibility. You seem to have tried a lot of distros without liking them, so what exactly are you looking for?

Last edited by angelic_sedition (07-Feb-2014 05:01:37)
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I'm on Ubuntu right now. It looks nicer than I remember it but my laptop's fans are on full blast all the time, it's crazy loud. Very hot air coming from laptop exhaust. I need to turn off the special effects somehow I think. I'm actually scared to carry on using it in case it fries my laptop!

Tried to install Lubuntu (supposedly the lightweight version) which I hope will fix this problem but it won't even download. So far: not impressed.

Update: So I managed to install Lubuntu, which I had to burn to disc because it wouldn't install from Wubi. It's been an absolute nightmare so far. Too many problems to even list. Installing it took ages. Text replacement function didn't work at all - Autokey crashing every minute and even when it didn't crash I couldn't get it to work. Being asked to send error reports all the time because Linux has failed at this or that. Ugly font smoothing in browsers, no idea how to disable. I've managed to do it for the main OS but not the browser. Boot time: No noticeable improvement over Windows. The loud fan noise persists, which might be to do the fact that my laptop (a HP Pavilion DV6) uses a hybrid/dual graphics card set up to save power. So I try to install ATi's Catalyst Centre to set it to the efficient mode. I first look in Lubuntu's package installer thing, it's not there. I go on the internet and download Linux drivers from the ATi site. I end up with some compressed file. No idea how to install it. Very, very frustrating experience overall.

lalop said:
shaaniqbal said:

Why even use Linux when it l̶a̶c̶k̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶s̶e̶ ̶b̶a̶s̶i̶c̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶g̶r̶a̶m̶s̶?̶ I tried it a few years ago (Ubuntu) and couldn't see why it was special. Maybe you can convert me.

Because it just w̶o̶r̶k̶s̶ doesn't work.

Last edited by shaaniqbal (04-Mar-2014 06:19:31)

T9-QWERTY - my port of T9 to the PC (a work in progress); T9-MOUSE - COMING SOON
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