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    IPA/phonetics – anyone interested?

    • Started by DreymaR
    • 6 Replies:
    • Reputation: 214
    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,362

    Ever since I set out to map as many useful glyphs as possible to the keyboard, I've been fascinated by phonetic script. It can be very useful if you're working with languages, dialects and/or words in general, and you typically need to write a little of it inbetween other text so it isn't really that practical to have as a separate layout. Adding to that, it consists of a plethora of interesting characters so it takes up space and is hard to learn.

    The SIL Unicode IPA Keyboard Layout is the best I've found to support this so far. But it's a separate layout and it breaks certain keys by making them dead keys, so it's a quite dedicated approach. Furthermore, I don't think it's simple to determine which of the four basic dead keys (< > = |) and multiple additional tricks in that layout should be employed to produce each glyph! It's probably all right if you type a lot of IPA a lot of the time, but most people don't.

    I have thought up an approach that taps directly into the phonetic organisation of the IPA glyphs. By arranging numbered hotkeys based on the placement of the sounds in the mouth or on the tongue, a system that should be intuitive for anyone who knows a little phonetics can be constructed. I should think that users of IPA symbols are at least interested enough in phonetics to find this workable and easier to remember!

    The official IPA chart shows how the symbols are organized by articulation location and type; here are the pulmonic consonants:
        IPA_consonants_2005.png

    • Let's say you want a retroflex n (a 'rn' sound) – type the 'retroflex' dead key (essentially, the 5 key with AltGr) and 'n' and you get 'ɳ' as you should.
    • Now, if you want a palatal n instead (a 'nj' sound) that's one step back in the mouth so you'll use the next key (6) and 'n' to produce 'ɲ' instead.
    • One step further and we're talking velar n ('ng'); as you may have guessed by now that's the next dead key backwards (7) for a 'ŋ' symbol.
    • This sorts itself out rather nicely for the most part, and makes it easy to understand and remember why the mappings are as they are.
    • The same principle applies to vowels using the "height of tongue" parameter ("close"→"open"), although it's a bit more tricky as the vowels are more intertwined (e.g., 'e'-type vowels being on multiple levels)

        IPA_vowel_chart_2005.png

    The question is, is anyone interested in this? Do anyone in the Colemak world use IPA frequently enough to potentially use such a solution? I know of one that used to post here a few years back, but I'm not even sure if she uses Colemak anymore.

    I don't use IPA often myself, but I'm quite fascinated by it as you can see from the above! :)

    Last edited by DreymaR (03-Jul-2014 16:07:52)

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    • From: Belgium
    • Registered: 26-Feb-2008
    • Posts: 482

    Honestly, for things like this, I'd use a markup language instead (eg. LaTeX: TIPA), and not overload your already crowded keyboard layout. :-)
    Or use RFC1345 style compose sequences, if needed across applications.

    PS: you should study the Korean script.  Really!

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,362

    Thanks for the quick and insightful reply! :)

    Korean Hangul script is a thing of beauty for sure. I haven't studied it but I know a little about it.

    The principle of the IPA setup I'm thinking up is akin to the compose method, but that's not available out of the box in Windows where dead keys take its place. In compose terminology, I'd use Multi+"IPA-key"(something available)+number+letter to achieve the same thing.

    That's 4+ key presses for one glyph, but that's okay with the intended usage: One usually only needs to write a bracketful of IPA every now and then and that makes switching to another layout or compiling markup or whatever impractical compared to having it handy on the keyboard in my opinion – but it doesn't have to be fast as it's only a few glyphs at a time.

    The great advantage to my method is that it lets you know more or less how to type a glyph if you know your phonology, or if you don't then you'll learn the phonology of that glyph as a bonus which makes it easier to remember for the next time you need it or even for hunting and pecking: "Let's see, that sound is near the middle of my mouth isn't it ... so I'll use the '5' key then. Oops, that's not it – but the neighbor works, yay!"

    It'll also open up for writing African latin scripts which is a bit complex but would be a good thing. My proposed system should have room for capitalized versions of the needed glyphs so you could write Berber and Togo latin script and several others at the least. Not as proper locale layouts but for referring to these languages.

    As for the crowding issue, it wouldn't take up any important real estate but a priori overload dead key mappings that don't do anything beforehand. Non-interested typists could safely ignore it and only notice it when they make a typo after a dead key. It'd only be a matter of documentation, which could be kept separate from the main one.

    I'm considering using the AltGr+Shift mappings for these dead keys instead, as that'd be simpler.

    Last edited by DreymaR (07-Jul-2014 16:31:05)

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    • Registered: 19-Jun-2007
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    Hangeul isn't a phonetic script. It's featural, which is not the same thing. Hangeul doesn't quite cover enough sounds, and due to the design, I'm not sure it's easy to extend to more sounds. Most importantly, whether people want it to extend is another question.

    As for truer phonetic and featural script, I have created one myself (called Flownetic). Sure, it's somewhat inspired by the simplicity of Hangeul. You can read more about here http://www.shenafu.com/code/liyahu/flownetic.php . Of course, it's nowhere near as completed as IPA, but it's much easier to write, much like Hangeul.

    What's that got to do with this topic? Well, somewhat related is how to represent the symbols using only English letters. i.e. devise a simple way for users to create the symbols through forum BBC code or Wordpress plugin. For example, I created a SMF plugin to render this script using only English letters, which you can try here http://shenafu.com/smf/index.php?topic=117.0

    Anyway, my way to display extra phonetic sounds is camelcase English letters. Common sounds are typed with a single lowercase letter, while more complex or rare sounds are typed with two letters where the first is uppercase and the second is lowercase. For instance, the 'f' sound in English is just 'f', but the 'th' sound (as in 'that', 'there', etc.) is typed 'Fh'. And the script will recognize these two as different symbols and render the appropriate one. for example, 'faith' would be typed as 'feiFh' (where 'ai' is pronounced /ei/).

    Now to translate that to keyboard mapping, I'm not that advanced into those things yet. Perhaps something like Autohotkey can parse the text as you type and spit out the correct glyph. using my system, you don't have to remap the keyboard at all. Instead of remembering unsemantic hex codes, it's easier to remember sound-alikes. 'ng' sound is typed 'Ng' with capital 'n'. Spanish 'ñ' is 'Ny', etc.

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    Heh, a fascinating idea. The camelcase approach is probably more intuitive than Sampa? Although I'd expect Th for the þ sound, both from phonology and usage (and Nj for ñ). So it's not all that easy. I expect it's because þ is a fricative – but it doesn't quite sit with me nevertheless.

    Your Flownetic is pretty, but goes too far for me. Like Colemak, it's better to build on something recognizable like IPA does – to keep the learning and implementation curve manageable. Parts of IPA work very well, with a recognizable base letter and consistent elements denoting articulation (palatal and retroflex hooks); other parts are more chaotic unfortunately. Otherwise, Tolkien's Tengwar script is almost phonetical and featural like Flownetic – very pretty but not very useful for us!

    You're obviously a resourceful and creative person! ^_^

    I need to write IPA, and I want to do it properly. IPA isn't perfect but it's the standard so that's what I'll use. And I'll want to do it without installing anything special except the keyboard layout which I need anyway.

    Nobody claimed that Hangeul were phonetic, just that it's beautiful. :)

    Last edited by DreymaR (08-Jul-2014 15:50:39)

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    • Registered: 15-Apr-2014
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    DreymaR said:

    Otherwise, Tolkien's Tengwar script is almost phonetical and featural like Flownetic – very pretty but not very useful for us!

    I was going to mention Tengwar as a featural script.

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    • From: Viken, Norway
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    Mellon! :)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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