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    Ergonomic typing scheme: what do you think?

    • Started by spremino
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    • Registered: 03-Jul-2009
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    In this video, the author presents an ergonomic scheme for touch typing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p … uPYf0#t=93

    It makes sense to me, but I was intrigued by the alternative way of typing P: with your middle finger.  What do you guys think?  I am interested to considerations about ergonomics, not about the suitability of such a scheme with Colemak.

    Thank you.

    --

    EDIT: Added link to the video.

    Last edited by spremino (08-Dec-2014 00:16:02)

    Dvorak typist here.  Please take my comments with a grain of salt.

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    Have you forgotten the link to the video?

    I find P with Dvorak a bit weird (same placement for Colemak), and have groped for it with the middle finger in the past, as I've a bad habit of bending my wrist to hit it.  Silly inverted stagger.

    Last edited by pinkyache (07-Dec-2014 23:27:01)

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    pinkyache said:

    Have you forgotten the link to the video?

    Sorry.  I have updated my original post to add the link.

    Dvorak typist here.  Please take my comments with a grain of salt.

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    (Insert here link to Dreymar's angle mod...) ;)

    What's suggested in the video makes sense to me.  Only I've gotten so used to using the left with a twist that I think it will be hard habit to break. (Not forgetting the relearning again, vim bindings...)

    @davkol, link please...

    Last edited by pinkyache (08-Dec-2014 11:18:52)

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    @davkol, Google and their personalised filter bubbles may result in different recommendations for you than I.  I chanced upon a 'wrong' video one day, and am forever haunted by that past click.

    'Crazy lady' is a little insulting.  Is this the video you reference?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18qO2B5-UL4

    She suggests that some split/curved keyboards can introduce a twist on the right wrist.  I twist my left more on a standard keyboard.  But perhaps these bad habits can be overcome.

    Last edited by pinkyache (08-Dec-2014 13:14:51)

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    Her criticism towards ergonomic keyboards makes sense when you realize that in practice she is criticizing "ergonomic" *staggered* keyboards.  It is true that with a split staggered keyboard, your right elbow may bend outwards more than with a standard staggered keyboard.  True ergonomic keyboards -- instead -- will keep your elbows close to your sides.

    I doubt that the women in those videos are the same person.  The videos are from two different companies: HealthyTyping and Keytime.

    Dvorak typist here.  Please take my comments with a grain of salt.

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    davkol said:

    The problem is the assumption of uniform fingering technique and centered straight keyboard. What if you position the keyboard slightly to the right—or diagonally with the right side closer to your body?

    Well, some assumptions are understandable when they refer to mainstream practice, aren't they?  She is just proposing one alternative to mainstream practice among many possible alternatives (like the alternatives that you have suggested just now).

    Last edited by spremino (08-Dec-2014 13:54:19)

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    davkol said:

    There's one significant difference: it's their business, and the videos are their means of marketing themselves.

    I don't know... After all, the alternative scheme they recommend shouldn't make any difference for them. Anyway, I am hijacking my own thread!  Davkol, what do you think of that alternative fingering for P?

    By the way, I have already adopted such alternative fingering for P, and it feels more comfortable indeed. Though I am not convinced about the recommended scheme for the number row for the right hand (as a programmer who needs to type symbols easily, it concerns me).

    Dvorak typist here.  Please take my comments with a grain of salt.

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    • From: Viken, Norway
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    It's not too far from my preferred way?

    Cmk-ISO-AWide35_90d-FingerShui.png

    I like to be not quite rigid about which finger types which digit, as it depends on the previous digit. That can be a little confusing, or an asset. It mostly affects the middle and ring fingers, as shown in the image. Without the Wide mod, it also goes for the number 6 key.

    Last edited by DreymaR (08-Dec-2014 15:46:18)

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    (@davkol, sadly the web has been 'watered down' with commerciality, which does make it difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff.

    People could be just as disparaging about the Colemak fairy dust.)

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    DreymaR said:

    It's not too far from my preferred way?

    It isn't.  And it isn't far for my previous way, either.  I mentioned it because it was the first time that I had seen such an alternative fingering for P.

    DreymaR said:

    I like to be not quite rigid about which finger types which digit, as it depends on the previous digit. That can be a little confusing, or an asset.

    The former, for me ;-)

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    davkol said:

    I like the DreymaR's scheme, except the number row—I don't like 6 on the left (because I sometimes touch type on the number row without going down to the home row)

    I can't understand why that would be the case.  The digit 6 is closer to the left index anyway.

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    davkol said:

    Pinkie on 1,…, index finger on 4 and with a slight movement on 5. Mirrored on the right (pinkie on 0, index finger on 7). 16 (or worse, 126) with 6 on the left would be quite a stretch.

    That makes sense. Thanks.

    Dvorak typist here.  Please take my comments with a grain of salt.

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    Davkol: As I said, without the Wide mod the digit 6 falls between the hands and I'd probably use either hand depending on which one was more available. With the Wide mod, the difference in distance is really noticeable and the digit 6 falls quite squarely into the domain of the left hand as you can see from the image.

    As the image shows, the digits 3 and 8 are really up to the user's preferences. If your ring fingers want to do less work, then middle fingers all the way it is. I tend to be a bit flexible about it as mentioned, but for some that's just weird so it's up to you what works best for you.

    Last edited by DreymaR (09-Dec-2014 15:47:04)

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    That alternative fingering for P feels definitely better and I will stick with it, even if it worsens the same-finger ratio.

    Dvorak typist here.  Please take my comments with a grain of salt.

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    Regarding the concept in the video:
       +The bottom row makes sense, I suspect most people who taught themselves to touchtype (aka without specialized software and/or strict supervision) do this already. Improves comfort and (on Qwerty) reduces consecutive finger use (slightly).
       -The top row shift is interesting, but a poor choice for qwerty typists. E, R and D all on the same finger causes an atrocious boost in consecutive finger use. Beyond that, the increased wrist angle forces closer keyboard position and pushes the left elbow out to the side, away from a natural rest position. This merely moves the stress from the wrist up to the shoulder/neck, which can cause spinal problems. The wrist angle also shifts relative positions of the keys, increasing distance to both the R and T, while the W reach becomes more lateral. The hand naturally shifts further up on the board due to frequency of T and R, making the bottom row even harder to hit. Try typing 'extra' with this fingering in qwerty.

    In conclusion, for Qwerty I'm not in favor. http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-anal … d/n0GtD0m1

    For Colemak, it might be worth a try. http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-anal … d/rDF779lT


    EDIT: You may question my claim of the increased distance to the T. Try this experiment: From your usual home position, your move your fingers to rest on A, S, R and T. Now, keeping your wrist straight, move your left elbow out to the side. Notice the way your index finger straightens? QED.

    Last edited by cevgar (17-Dec-2014 18:07:21)
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