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    Dear Shai: Hard to reach C key

    • Started by jag50
    • 5 Replies:
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    • Registered: 29-Jul-2007
    • Posts: 51

    I use the mouse for the cut, copy and paste function and rarely use the Shortcuts.  I have noticed that the letter C is very frequent.  Since the C key puts a strain on my middle finger, I have swapped the C key for the F key on the Colemak layout.  Where do you think that the C key should go if the Shortcuts problem did not exist?

    Last edited by jag50 (15-Sep-2007 07:15:36)
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    • Shai
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    • Registered: 11-Dec-2005
    • Posts: 423

    There is only a small difference in the letter frequency between C (2.78%) and F (2.23%), so you won't gain that much by exchanging them. Shortcut compatibility and ease of learning were also important factors while designing Colemak, and that's why I kept C in its place.

    I personally found that using the mouse causes a lot more strain on the wrists than using a keyboard, so I try to minimize mouse usage. Keeping Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V next to each other makes it easier when copying and pasting.

    If you want to move C, exchanging it with F is probably best.

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,371

    Are you using Spanish or something, since you type C so much?

    To me, both the Colemak F and C positions are quite awkward stretches (unless you use a curved or hinged ergonomic board); admittedly the C is the slightly worse off of the two. They're both examples of the row staggering working against you. Therefore, I'm not sure where I'd put the C if I were to move it around.

    Most likely - especially in light of my own language being Norwegian where the C is hardly used at all - I'd leave the C in place. I don't see it as a necessary enough improvement to move it anywhere, therefore for my uses it should stay in place. There's also the issue of compliance with future Colemak goodies (yeah, I know, there hasn't been a lot of merchandise and cool applets lately...).

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • Registered: 07-Jan-2007
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    jag50 said:

    I use the mouse for the cut, copy and paste function and rarely use the Shortcuts.  I have noticed that the letter C is very frequent.  Since the C key puts a strain on my middle finger, I have swapped the C key for the F key on the Colemak layout.  Where do you think that the C key should go if the Shortcuts problem did not exist?

    You could always try nTheia, it places C on the home row (right ring finger), and changes the angle of the left hand so that typing on the bottom row is more comfortable. But it's not at like qwerty.

    To type qwerty using nTheia it's necessary to transpose each letter as you type, exaple: nppt for food (having memorized fn op dt and as bz cj eg gr ha iu je ki lc mq n' pb qv rm sd tl uo vx wf xw y/ zk ,y ?& !¢ ;h ', "? /@ @№ ... piece of cake! ... bugjg pn jsig¢).

    Here a link https://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?id=226

    And the layout:

    nTheia
    V F/ G/ M/ L¦ ¬ O\ U\P \B ;:
     S/ D/ T/ N R¦ A E\ I\ C\ H ,?
     / K/ W/ J X Z¦'" Q\ Y\.!\ @
    
    *
    **

    *The '¬' and '@' are arbitrary keys that could be used for the backslash and slash respectively (but that would have been confusing with the same character used to show finger position).
    **The comma and semicolon act as dead keys to free up the alt-gr real estate for programming keys and custom symbols (as per user preference).

    "Things will get better despite our efforts to improve them" - Will Rogers
    "...even the dog doesn't think I'm a monster." - Humphrey Bogart in The Caine Mutiny (1954)

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,371

    Soren, you crazy coot - I can't believe that you're not confusing even yourself!  ;)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • Registered: 08-Mar-2008
    • Posts: 303

    Shai, where are you getting your letter frequency from?

    I think that the positions of Z, X, C, and V are actually rather difficult to type as command keys. The index finger has to stretch down to be near the thumb. I think the easiest keys to type while holding cmd/ctrl with the thumb are (QWERTY positions) A, S, Q, W, and E. If you move to the right more it requires a bending of the wrist. For the sake of commands, the best thing (for a mac) IMO would be Q in Qwerty position due to being next to tab (command-tab + command-Q to quit), the H being next to Q (command-tab + command-H to hide), C being in the R position (which is a little harder, but still easier than command-V), and Z, X, and V being in the same place because I don't use them as much, they can't go on the home row, and there's no other good place for them.

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