• You are not logged in.
  • Index
  • General
  • The latest recommendations for starting

The latest recommendations for starting

  • Started by Vicuna
  • 26 Replies:
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 14-Jun-2015
  • Posts: 34

Hello everyone. I read every major thread on here, a bunch of other forums, and youtube videos...After a week of obsessing, I'm going to go for it :)

I plan on going cold-turkey. Typing slowly for a few months at my job won't set me back much. I bought a Happy Hacking Keyboard that's blank...so i'll be learning a new keyboard at the same time (I think that'll help). And i'll be forced to touch type with the blank letters and all.

I currently type without looking on qwerty but i'm using the wrong fingers and I'm probably at like 50-55 WPM...so I have a lot of room to improve.

So I just wanted what everyone thought would be the best starting point / website for learning for me. There seem to be a ton of sites and some of the suggestions were 5 years old, etc. What's the latest? I specifically want to start my training with learning the right finger positions and drill that and accuracy more than anything. :)

Thanks in advance!

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 18-Sep-2014
  • Posts: 3

http://www.keybr.com/ it support colemak layout.
and of course amphetype!.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,362

Check my sig topics, particularly Tarmak. (Before you start, you may also consider whether you want to learn any ergonomy mods and the Extend mode.)

For instance, for an ANSI keyboard you could do a Tarmak transition to A-Wing Curl(DbgHk) Colemak like this:
    Tarmak_Spectral_ETROI-Curl%28DbgHk%29AWing.png

Again, that's described in my sig topics.

I second Amphetype as a great choice. I type-read books with it.

Last edited by DreymaR (14-Jun-2015 18:33:16)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 14-Jun-2015
  • Posts: 34

Ok great thanks...I'll check it out. I'll probably just skip Tarmak since I was typing incorrectly in qwerty anyway...and with the new keyboard I was planning on re learning anyway...I drg want to settle on one layout though and really stick with it long term.

Are the ergonomic mods you made worth it for someone without any issues?

My end goal is accuracy, moderate speed, ergonomics (in that order)...I don't mind an initial struggle but don't want two or three

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,362

Yes, they are. The downside to them is technically you're moving more keys (although mentally it's a very minor upheaval!), but among the upsides are straight wrists (no ulnar deviation), better finger load balance (especially right-hand pinky), better access to AltGr/Back/Enter/RShift, better hand separation (felt in the shoulders). The Curl mod seems faster to me, as the DH and G keys are in better places requiring less effort. I'm faster with it, at least.

The Extend mode is the single best thing to learn next to Colemak itself, and can be used with QWERTY or whatever layout you wish so you could start using it today if you want.

Last edited by DreymaR (14-Jun-2015 19:54:59)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 14-Jun-2015
  • Posts: 34

your extend layers are killer. awesome. i can see you put a lot of effort into this.

i'm already sort of stuck with a regular keyboard (without that little extra button on the bottom left next to the shift)...so i'm not going to get into that layout (as I just want to learn one).

the one you have above here...i'm curious...why the / in the middle there? seems like that's a pretty easy place to put a letter. also I literally never use [ and ]. dunno if that's for programming or what. I could probably make those a caps lock and a sleep key or something though.

is that layout going to be better than just colemak? is that something that'll just never be supported most likely?

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,362

The "little extra button" keyboard is the ISO/World keyboard; yours is probably ANSI/US (and no, that's not the only "standard" around!). There are plenty of solutions for that too. Most of the stuff here works for both, but the Angle (and by extension, Curl) mod is more natural on the ISO board. For ANSI, I'd go with A-Wing myself as on that image above (moving the brackets over to the left).

Support depends on what you mean. I use PKL for Windows and my own mappings for Linux/XKB; another user has made Mac implementations. Support's nearly as good as for vanilla Colemak, I'd say, except that vanilla Colemak comes out of the box for Linux now.

Whether it's better than standard Colemak? In this case it depends mostly on how you feel about the QWERTY G and H positions. Some think they're a bit hard to reach so they shouldn't be considered quite as superior as the other home positions. The creators of layouts such as Workman and Norman thought so. Their layouts aren't as good as Colemak if you ask me, but I've come around to their view on those positions. The Curl mods fix that by moving the more common D and H to positions on the bottom row that I consider better than their reputation. Just think about it, how you feel about the positions and how good they are relative to each other. Read up on my Curl thoughts (links from the Big Bag) if you wish.

Last edited by DreymaR (14-Jun-2015 21:38:24)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 14-Jun-2015
  • Posts: 34

ok cool...yeah i've been reading...wtf to US keyboards for not having that extra key.

anyway i'm going to stick with the ANSI keyboard layout for now. it'll be hard enough memorizing the new layout I chose and switching around. maybe i'll add that later.

gotta read more about the A-Wing and decide that I guess. I have no idea what pkl is either...i'll figure it out right now. I'm strictly a windows user.

is anyone else using the A-Wing? is it essentially just a file that I just import like importing another language in windows?

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 14-Jun-2015
  • Posts: 34

simple question...for your angle mod..i'm reading through your site but maybe missed this...do your fingers still go to the home row after each stroke? or are you bringing the pinky up?

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 14-Jun-2015
  • Posts: 34

hmm...i was 100000% ready to start colemak and now you have me thinking hah..

this Mod-DH really is beautiful....well well done.

i'm not sure if it's worth it to switch for my case...still debating. i see a much bigger difference using your chart in difficulty level with the ISO keyboard than ANSI. probably just being able to remember more keys from qwerty and punctuation being the same might not make it worth the jump at this point.

wow we really need to get those ISO keyboards as standard here.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,362

I have a mechanical ISO keyboard with US markings (from Unicomp) so it's possible to get hold of but not so easy. It's kind of a funny story about the extra key though: Microsoft designed the ISO keyboard because international users needed more keys (as many have special letters). But the US customers didn't like the thought of having to reach a little further for the left Shift so it didn't catch on there and we were stuck with two standards instead of one new one. I think the Enter key is better on ANSI though (but that's helped by the Wide mod so it's okay now).

PKL is a program written in the AHK language that many use to script windows hotkeys and stuff. It's really well written and I've made many files for it. So to use one of my PKL layouts you'd run the PKL program (it can run at startup so you don't have to worry about it).

The idea with these ergo mods is that although several keys change places physically your fingers will be hitting the same keys as before for the most part. The symbol keys that move are rare in use so they won't disrupt typing flow. Thus, ergo mods are really simple to learn although they may look daunting at first glance.

Last edited by DreymaR (14-Jun-2015 23:29:26)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 14-Jun-2015
  • Posts: 34

so in your mod, do you move your finger starting position?

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,362

Oh, curses! I see now that I forgot to move the homing markers on that image. Yes, the starting position is at the same keys as before: ARST NEIO. That's a major point of this.

Try refreshing the page (Ctrl+F5), I've fixed the nubs now.

I'm working on releasing a Tarmak Colemak-Curl(DbgHk) progression for the A-Wing mod! Whether you use the Tarmak steps or not, that'll include A-Wing modded QWERTY and the full Colemak-Curl layout, with help images. Also, it'll enable the Extend mode so you might be interested in giving it a spin. My current PKL download (from the PKL Big Bag topic) already has several ANSI layouts so you could look at Extend whenever it pleases you, mind.

The Tarmak layouts don't have any AltGr remappings (or rather, they just pass through any such mappings or lack thereof that the active system layout has), but you ANSI people tend not to use those anyway. ;-)

Last edited by DreymaR (15-Jun-2015 09:39:48)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 14-Jun-2015
  • Posts: 34

so do you usually move the physical keys or just deal with the nubs on the wrong fingers.

any user reviews yet? im only a day in so it wont hurt to switch. might i see any compatibility issues with windows?

why move the / key?
how do you feel about swapping ; and '    as i rarely use ;
how do you feel about swapping ] for backspace? i never use []
won't this make the o harder?

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 14-Jun-2015
  • Posts: 34

ok I see a lot of your answers now. this is amazing.

i'm having a heck of a time getting this mod..i dl your whole package but can't figure out which one to run...do I have to modify one of them or something to get this one you recommend??

thanks in advance!

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,362

Hang on, the ANSI A-Wing layouts for PKL/Windows are still in the making I'm afraid so you'll have to cool your heels a day or two at the least. Sorry.

To activate layouts, you have to comment/uncomment lines in the pkl.ini files. Not polished, but it is what it is. You can have several layouts (and their descriptions) ready at once, so they all show up in the GUI menu.

I sometimes move keys if it's easy to do, but not necessarily. The only thing I find necessary is a tactile homing nub on the new N (unmodded QWERTY K) key. On my laptop I've carefully scratched a line in that key so I can feel it. A dab of glue has also been suggested. The number row may be the most confusing as I sometimes look at it when I'm a bit sloppy, so maybe you want to move the keys from 7 upwards?

As you see, the Curl mod needs the Angle mod and the Angle mod is really easy on an ISO board but more tricky on ANSI boards and you have to "pick your poison": A-Wing (my preferred choice... I think), ZXCVB→XCVBZ mod or something more creative like nuking LShift(!). Do you agree that A-Wing looks most promising?

Swapping ' and ; seems sound if you rarely use semicolon/colon. It's actually not a rare key in text, and comes in as more common than J for instance. But the apostrophe is important too, and gets a slightly worse position with the standard A-Wing mod. That and the / are the biggest downsides to that mod as I see it (but not that bad all in all).

As for Backspace on RBracket, maybe. The brackets get quite decent positions in the A-Wing mod, so putting something nice on them is tempting. But my Extend Backspace works very well (particularly with Extend shift) so you might try getting used to it first.

    Tarmak-CAWing6_Spectral_Cmk.png
    PKL help image for ANSI A-Wing Colemak-Curl(DbgHk)

Last edited by DreymaR (17-Jun-2015 10:41:46)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 14-Jun-2015
  • Posts: 34

Ah ok...I thought I was going nuts not finding it.

Yes I think this is the way to go for me. I have to think about what to put on the spot for brackets...I'm thinking backspace for the lower one and making caps into ctrl. Hmm dunno about the top one yet...maybe "

Or maybe a / and make / into a ?

I think I use ? Much more than /


Anyway, can't wait

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 14-Jun-2015
  • Posts: 34

how does this look? i just made this real fast so i could start practicing

Layout01.jpg
picture uploading

Layout01_Shft.jpg
post img

Last edited by Vicuna (16-Jun-2015 16:16:23)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,362

You don't want to lose the brackets completely though. Having multiple " and \ on your layout seems like a waste to me so maybe just put, say, tilde back in the corner, {} back where they were, [] somewhere. Use the AltGr/lv3–4 mappings maybe?

I started out my layout experience by moving symbol keys around like you're doing, but ended up with all of them in their standard US positions (apart from semicolon, obviously). I found it more valuable to stay compliant with a large part of the keyboard world than finding marginally better positions for some very rarely used keys. Also, that Back mapping may work well or not depending on your luck. As long as you still have the original Backspace I suppose it'll be fine though.

Last edited by DreymaR (17-Jun-2015 10:42:47)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 14-Jun-2015
  • Posts: 34

ok...thanks again...gotta get to work now. I need to learn pkl at some point too

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 117
  • From: UK
  • Registered: 14-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 978

Interesting solution for an ANSI keyboard.  Are you not also going to have an Extend layer?  With that layout, I'd be tempted to try Extend where you have backspace (Qwerty A).
Also your number keys are offset from the home position relative to usual. Perhaps you might want to move them one space right also?

Using Colemak-DH with Seniply.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 14-Jun-2015
  • Posts: 34

was going to deal with extend when i got better at typing :) its painful now!

gotta think about the numbers...hmmmm

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 14-Jun-2015
  • Posts: 34

here's the latest

i still want to move the ] and [ to an extend layer as i dont ever use them. we'll see

awing.jpg
image hosting

awing_Shft.jpg
photo uploading

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,362

Extend is about moving keys, not symbols, so I'd rather move the brackets to an AltGr layer if I were you. It's technically possible to use Extend mappings for the brackets, it's just not quite in the spirit of things.

Steve has a very interesting point though, that I too stumbled upon today while trying out the A-Wing Tarmak layouts! On my layout the Extend key (CapsLock) is just left of A and that's part of what makes it a success. But what should we do when using the A-Wing mod?!? I feel that the CapsLock key is just a little too far away to allow comfortable chording with the AST modifier keys.

Moving Extend to the RBracket key just left of A is the obvious solution, but where will the bracket go and what about that big fat Caps key now? It seems a bit silly to put the RBracket there?

Another interesting point is that the Extend Esc keys are now next to each other so the LBracket is now open. I first put a Del on it for now as that'd be handy to have there, but it's an opportunity for customisation. The WheelLeft/Right keys are scrapped as it's a rarely used function so the slash key is open too. Is Ctrl+A (Select All) nice for the Slash key (that's now on the middle bottom row)?

Or, well, bite the apple and map those brackets on Extend. They need to be mapped as the RBracket key itself then (by VirtualKey code) so the curly brackets work with that key plus Shift.

[edit: Success! I've made ANSI-AWing layouts for everything from Tarmak0(QWERTY)_AWing to Tarmak5(Colemak)_AWing! The key left of A in the AWing mod is Extend, and Ext-[{ gives ]} (tested and confirmed). There's a pkl_AWing.ini file that you can copy and rename to pkl.ini to get the AWing magic going (necessary for Extend to work as it should). In that pkl.ini file you'll see all the Tarmak layouts but you can make your own line that has only what you want such as QWERTY and Colemak. Enjoy!]

Last edited by DreymaR (17-Jun-2015 23:59:32)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 14-Jun-2015
  • Posts: 34

Sweet! What're your thoughts on moving the numbers over to the right one?

I'm thinking I'll want Backspace on that bottom bracket...we'll see how it feels...I just personally number use those things

With that pkl file can I just edit it myself to make a few changes? Or do I need to know how to program?

Offline
  • 0
  • Index
  • General
  • The latest recommendations for starting