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    SandS("Space and Shift") for Windows?

    • Started by froubain
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    • Registered: 24-Oct-2014
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    24-Oct-2014 09:56:09#1 SandS("Space and Shift") for Windows?

    Is this dual role key feature available for Windows?

    In case you don't know what "SandS" is, here is what Wikipedia says:

    "... you can use the space bar both as a normal Space bar and as a Shift. Intuitively, it'll be a Space when you want a whitespace, and a Shift when you want it to act as a shift. I.e. when you simply press and release it, it is the usual space, but when you press other keys, say X, Y and Z, while holding down the space, then they will be treated as Shift plus X, Y and Z".

    My friend uses it on Linux using this (https://gitorious.org/at-home-modifier/pages/Home) and I found it pretty useful (and comfortable) for ppl with weak pinkies like me.
    On Mac, Karabiner (https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/document.html.en) seems to include the SandS-mode, according to here (http://alternativeto.net/software/keyremap4macbook/). 
    As for Windows, these AutoHotkey scripts(https://github.com/benhansenslc/BigCtrl, https://github.com/lydell/dual) are supposed to offer the feature but neither of them works on my PC...

    BTW, suppose the scripts work, don't the "timeout", which "is used to prevent accidental spaces from being inserted when the space bar key", (300ms for the default) and "delay", which "is used to try to ensure a key that was briefly pressed with the space bar", (70ms for the default) cost super fast typists some speed(https://github.com/benhansenslc/BigCtrl … /README.md)?

    P.S.  The signup CAPTCHA in this forum is pretty hard!

    Last edited by froubain (24-Oct-2014 11:02:58)
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    24-Oct-2014 10:49:12#2 Re: SandS("Space and Shift") for Windows?

    I tried a configuration like that for while in my early days of learning Colemak. It will worked well to start with, but as my typing speed increased, I found I started to get incorrect characters appearing. Maybe it could be mitigated by setting a good "timeout" value, but in the end I put it in the category of: good idea in theory but not working so well in practice.

    Last edited by stevep99 (24-Oct-2014 10:49:59)

    Using Colemak-DH with Seniply.

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    24-Oct-2014 11:32:00#3 Re: SandS("Space and Shift") for Windows?

    stevep99,

    Thanks for the quick response.

    I'm glad to learn this feature also help fast typists improve their typing speed.

    Anyway, I just found and tried another "SandS" AutoHotkey script here (http://holypp.hatenablog.com/entry/20091208/1260269932) and it seems to be working so far.

    Still, I am looking for other solutions, as AutoHotkey drives me crazy quite often(, which might be all my fault, though...).

    Is there any hack to add this feature to the MSKLC package or anything else?

    Last edited by froubain (24-Oct-2014 11:36:14)
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    24-Oct-2014 15:00:56#4 Re: SandS("Space and Shift") for Windows?

    The Linux solution is a fork of the evdev driver which is the input handler for the OS. So it's a quite low-end solution.

    For Windows, you're probably best served by AutoHotKey. I don't know why your scripts didn't work, but be aware of multi-hooking: If you already have one script (such as PKL) using a low-level keyboard hook then it won't let the input through to the next hook unless it's programmed right. This is often a problem with multiple AHK-based scripts.

    MSKLC can't handle key-down/key-up mappings as it stands. You'd have to edit the source code which is fairly difficult.

    Yes, I suppose it might be a problem for super fast typists. As a matter of fact, I've heard that some of them prefer a sticky shift to the normal switch-type modifier. That can't be combined with a Space then.

    Last edited by DreymaR (24-Oct-2014 15:02:02)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    09-Sep-2015 13:41:24#5 Re: SandS("Space and Shift") for Windows?

    Shift is one of the worst keys on a normal keyboard. Whoever thought that it was a good idea to make typists leave the home row, every new sentence?

    On the left side, CapsLock is a much better place for shift. One centrally placed key, used with the thumbs, is even better. Best would be to have the space bar split in 3 pieces, and make it SPACE, SHIFT, BACKSPACE.  (or BACKSPACE, SHIFT, SPACE if you prefer that).

    A different solution would be what smartphones do: a period is automatically followed by a space and a shift. So if I type works great.yes, really!  that would be translated to works great. Yes, really!  You would only need to press a key if you did NOT want a space and shift.

    Last edited by pieter (09-Sep-2015 13:41:47)
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    10-Sep-2015 08:51:56#6 Re: SandS("Space and Shift") for Windows?

    Thanks. The physical layout of of keyboards keeps surprising me..... the staggered keys, the large space bar, the shift keys.... and it's not just inertia, I mean keyboards DID change: old typewriters did not have:
    - Function-keys
    - Backspace, Ctrl, Alt, Menu, Win, Return, Esc, pipe, curly braces etc
    - ins, del, home, end, Page Up/Down, arrow keys
    - Numpad .....

    Why ... could they make a Numpad without the stagger, but can't we loose the stagger on the alfa keys ??

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    10-Sep-2015 15:02:54#7 Re: SandS("Space and Shift") for Windows?

    I think the large spacebar is the single most annoying thing about the standard keyboard.

    While there are lots of other annoyances, most can mitigated to some extent (e.g. the row stagger can be partially fixed with the angle mod), but the large spacebar on a standard board is such a waste and there's nothing you can do about it. Thumb-key shift would be the way to go, I have implemented this on the left half of my split-space keyboard, and it is very nice.

    Using Colemak-DH with Seniply.

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    11-Sep-2015 11:36:00#8 Re: SandS("Space and Shift") for Windows?

    Oh but the space bar can be a joy to slap.

    --
    Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

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