• You are not logged in.

Next Generation

  • Started by bph
  • 44 Replies:
  • Reputation: 21
  • From: Chicago
  • Registered: 27-Apr-2016
  • Posts: 221

VR environment is not too far, I'm sure. But will it change much? Will see. My children already using Siri way more than I do. They ask Siri questions, but never use it for entering messages.
And how many people you know who are using MessagEase?

Last edited by ckofy (23-Apr-2017 14:45:57)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,361

Both me, Geert and Pavel! No, I know, MessagEase is barely even the Colemak of touch screen layouts. But it's nice! And in my opinion, friendly. It took my son almost no time to understand and start using it on my phone.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • From: Washington DC
  • Registered: 12-Apr-2017
  • Posts: 15

Keyboards are here to stay.  At least one study has been done that compares optimal speaking to optimal typing and typing won.  And that was on a QWERTY!

Watch for the new book: "The Colemak Keyboard Miracle - Why Jesus came back with priceless keyboard keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 16:19)" Coming Fall 2017: http://Jesus.bio

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 7
  • Registered: 21-Apr-2010
  • Posts: 818

Wikipedia WPM ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words_per_minute ), has audiobooks being comfortably read at 160WPM, standard touch typing barely hits 100WPM, so I doubt they are comparable.

--
Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,361

If "optimal typing" beat "optimal speech" in a test, surely it must've been some sort of shorthand typing system. Normal speech is reported as around 200 WPM, and this is nearly the very fastest QWERTY typing speeds recorded (such as Barbara Blackburn's 212 WPM record using dvorak, and that other one with QWERTY which was only slightly faster). To keep up with speed talkers, stenography is needed.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-diffe … ping-speed

Last edited by DreymaR (28-Apr-2017 08:45:25)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • From: Washington DC
  • Registered: 12-Apr-2017
  • Posts: 15

Here are the results of one study.  As it implies there is more to effective communication than raw speed.  Data must be checked for accuracy.  And in that realm typing wins.  There are also physical limits as to how much one can speak.  http://repository.cmu.edu/cgi/viewconte … xt=compsci

Watch for the new book: "The Colemak Keyboard Miracle - Why Jesus came back with priceless keyboard keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 16:19)" Coming Fall 2017: http://Jesus.bio

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • From: Washington DC
  • Registered: 12-Apr-2017
  • Posts: 15

While the results varied, the researchers concluded, "If you type faster than 45 WPM, you can enter data more quickly by typing than by error-free speech entry. A slower typist would be quicker by speech entry if it could be done without errors (Italics ours)"  http://atri.misericordia.edu/Papers/Speech.php

Watch for the new book: "The Colemak Keyboard Miracle - Why Jesus came back with priceless keyboard keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 16:19)" Coming Fall 2017: http://Jesus.bio

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 7
  • Registered: 21-Apr-2010
  • Posts: 818

@Jesus, aha, you are comparing typing with speech recognition.  But surely speech recognition will improve to the point where people can speak faster with the software accurately annotating?

Last edited by pinkyache (29-Apr-2017 20:50:59)

--
Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • From: Washington DC
  • Registered: 12-Apr-2017
  • Posts: 15

pinkyache - Actually the results of the studies are for perfect speech recognition which can't be improved upon regardless of the program.  It has to do with the limitations of language not hardware or software.

Watch for the new book: "The Colemak Keyboard Miracle - Why Jesus came back with priceless keyboard keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 16:19)" Coming Fall 2017: http://Jesus.bio

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 7
  • Registered: 21-Apr-2010
  • Posts: 818

(Sorry, I'm confused.  Someone else will have to help me out here.)

--
Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • From: Washington DC
  • Registered: 12-Apr-2017
  • Posts: 15

Davkol, I've been around the Internet since 1997 and I still don't know what a troll is.  My purpose for being in this forum is to share with participants the progress of my efforts in seeing to it that the Colemak keyboard becomes the international standard.  As for the studies the second one that I listed is clear.  Typing beats speech as the written word (documents) is very different from the spoken word.

Watch for the new book: "The Colemak Keyboard Miracle - Why Jesus came back with priceless keyboard keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 16:19)" Coming Fall 2017: http://Jesus.bio

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,361

An internet troll is a mix-up of two terms:
• Trolling: A fishing technique in which one drags a hook or lure after a boat. Fish will respond to the movement, and bite.
• Troll: A mythological creature in Nordic and Germanic tradition. Big, lumbering, stupid but very forceful creatures that are mostly evil.

Therefore, a troll on the internet is a mean debatant who uses lures to aggravate and stir up the waters. One who loves pissing people off and debating pointlessly. Trolling on the net is the activity of posting "flamebait", posts intended or at least very suited to provoke aggressive debate and quarreling.

I don't think Jesus is trolling. Davkol may often seem like he is, but I don't think he means to. That's my impression.

As for the speed question, I guess it wasn't obvious that Jesus was talking about speech recognition speeds. I misunderstood that point, at least.

Last edited by DreymaR (02-May-2017 14:33:55)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 21
  • From: Chicago
  • Registered: 27-Apr-2016
  • Posts: 221
davkol said:
Jesus said:

As for the studies the second one that I listed is clear.

It¹ concludes that speech recognition accuracy wasn't good enough 13 years ago.

¹ D Anson, L Daveski, P Chavannes, K Shaughnessy. Does Speech Recognition Deserve Recognition? A Study Comparing the Efficacy of Speech Recognition vs. the Standard Keyboard. 2004

It might be better nowadays, but I still convinced that for effective usage of VR SR (speech recognition) we need to have a strong AI (artificial intelligence) as a speech recipient. Something like a trained secretary, but in computer. Siri, Alexa, etc, are moving in that direction.

Last edited by ckofy (03-May-2017 23:34:15)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,361

Good points, Davkol!

I'm thinking about subvocalizing. Eventually, there's got to be some way of speaking to devices without speaking loudly? If we were whispering instead of talking loud and clear, speech recognition would have more of a place in our lives; this would presumably also make the technology more robust against outside noise. You'd have to wear some sort of necklace or choker, I suppose, to pick up larynx vibrations directly.

For VR, either something like MessagEase or some kind of speech recognition seems necessary to me.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,361

What I meant, that it'd be more convenient to use speech recognition if subvocal laryngophones were commonplace. Maybe it'll happen?

I don't think that silent speech interfaces are going to be very practical for most people any time soon. Would be cool of course.

Last edited by DreymaR (03-May-2017 14:23:14)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 21
  • From: Chicago
  • Registered: 27-Apr-2016
  • Posts: 221
davkol said:

sidenote: Your usage of VR is, ahem, a bit confusing. First, VR = virtual reality, most often. Second, voice recognition is more commonly used for voice biometrics, which is very different from speech recognition.

Correction accepted. But DreymaR is the first who used VR for voice recognition in this topic. :)

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,361

I did not. I used it to mean Virtual Reality! Hah. ^_^

I realized only today that you'd interpreted it differently.

Last edited by DreymaR (03-May-2017 15:23:51)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 21
  • From: Chicago
  • Registered: 27-Apr-2016
  • Posts: 221

BTW, I not realized when the terms Voice Recognition and Speech Recognition were separated. Years ago I was working on validating car's speech controlled system (OnStar, if somebody interested) and we called its speech recognition feature as voice recognition everywhere in official documents.

Last edited by ckofy (03-May-2017 23:46:23)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • From: Washington DC
  • Registered: 12-Apr-2017
  • Posts: 15

DreymaR  Let me be clear about my assertions concerning keyboarding Vs speech recognition.  My contention is that keyboarding wins even with "perfect" speech recognition.  2004, 2017, and for all time. 

To quote the study:

"Recognition accuracy of text is less an issue with state-of-the-art speech recognition than is error correction and navigation commands...  While text entry was relatively easy by voice, error correction and formatting presented substantial barriers. We found that a typical individual required approximately twice the time to complete a document containing a mixture of elements by voice than with the keyboard. The accuracy of the resulting document was also lower than for one produced by the keyboard."

And remember that all of that is with QWERTY with all of its limitations.

Does Speech Recognition Deserve Recognition? A Study Comparing the Efficacy of Speech Recognition vs. the Standard Keyboard{ Denis Anson, MS, OTR; Luann Daveski, OTS, Patrick Chavannes, OTS, and Karen Shaughnessy, OTS

Watch for the new book: "The Colemak Keyboard Miracle - Why Jesus came back with priceless keyboard keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 16:19)" Coming Fall 2017: http://Jesus.bio

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,361

I am no fan of speech recognition myself. For one, I think that native English speakers tend to overestimate its global utility (or just don't care about the rest of the world?). Also, the issue of office spaces vs noise, or public places which may be very noisy already to boot.

I do imagine that developments may overcome many of these issues eventually, making speech recognition cheap and robust. We'll see.

Last edited by DreymaR (08-May-2017 09:17:04)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0