This is my 60 day progress report. I will be updating this thread in a few days with a graph comparing my speed and accuracy on Qwerty, Colemak, Dvorak, and modified-Colemak over time.

Also, as I have noted before, learning colemak (both times) has definitely been much more frustrating than learning dvorak, but anyway... drumroll, please...

After 60 days: I am now averaging 65wpm (at 99+% accuracy sustained for 10min) with highs of 75wpm (at a 95-97% accuracy). This is about 10% slower than my Dvorak results.

For comparison sake:
After 60 days of training on Dvorak, I was hitting 70-75wpm (at 97% accuracy)
After 60 days of training on Qwerty, I was hitting 50-55wpm (at 97% accuracy)
After 60 days of training on Colemak (first time), I was hitting 60-65wpm (at 97% accuracy)

Nice graph there!

Apart from the QWERTY curve, I don't think the others are all that different if you allow for the variation created by the different learning experiences (I suppose the time and effort spent each day aren't the same unless you have a more well-structured life than me!). Now all we need to do is find the other 99 test persons of similar skill and let them learn the layouts in a randomized sequence, of course.  ;)

I just hit 75wpm @ 99% sustained for 10min! I have officially surpassed my colemak speed on my modified/optimised variant and I have updated the graph above to reflect that.

I'm cautiously optimistic that I will hit 80wpm within the next 3-4 weeks. (oh please, oh please, oh please let that happen!! :) )

I'm _still_ not sure if i prefer the dvorak style of typing or this style, but i can now say with confidence that dvorak did indeed feel more natural. I think having the A and O on opposite pinkies might have something to do with that. Otherwise, I'm enjoying the lack of 2-letter-swap typos. My main typos now involve row errors, or different finger errors.

All in all, I'm still pleased with the results.

Just another 15wpm to go in the next 100 days!

Hmm....Try this. How many times can you simply strum all 8 fingers on a table (starting from pinky and ending at index) in one second? The average person can do it 3-4 times per second, or 25-30 finger hits per second. If we assume that each time a finger hit the table, it registered as a character, then that would mean roughly 1500-1800cpm = 300-360wpm. Of course, it would be impossible to type anywhere close to that rate due to a bunch of factors, but anyway, I was able to go above 500cpm on dvorak for short periods of time. My sustained limit on dvorak was 450-475 before i decided to switch, which might not have been a wise decision as you will see when I update the thread with my results soon.

I have come to the conclusion that I prefer 2-3 letter rolls before switching over to the other hand and that I do not prefer using the same hand for 4+ letter rolls as that seems to slow me down considerably. On the other hand, high hand swapping has the same effect at high speeds due to letter-swap errors. A layout that keeps the bulk of typing in the 2-3 letter range before switching hands will probably be ideal for me... somewhere between Dvorak and Colemak.

So make sure you figure out what you prefer before switching over because dvorak might be a better fit for you.

Also, I always felt that there were some problems with the placement of the A and R rows. (I really hate the uncomfortable "middle-pinky-middle" and "pinky-middle-pinky" type transitions.) So after looking through all my timing data from the past 80 days, my suspicions were confirmed - there is considerable slowdown in my typing when I'm doing that type of finger transition. However, there isn't really a better way to map these keys without completely changing the layout so I'll just have to live with it, unless i decide to switch back to dvorak, that is... :)

I've mirrored the layout so it would be close to dvorak layout. I rotated the VGP block clockwise to make better use of my alternate-fingering. (Also, for my staggered keyboard, I shifted the left side of the bottom row by one key and placed the semicolon in the colemak-B position.) I also moved the "dash", "slash" and "square bracket" keys around to fit my typing.

 '  Y  U  L  J  V  G  F  W  Q

  O  I  E  N  H  D  T  S  R  A

   ,  .  M  K  ;  B  P  C  X  Z

And the "general" fingering for the left hand is (i use different fingering for specific words and phrases):

Left Pinky: ' O
Left Ring: Y I ,
Left Middle: U E .
Left Index: L J N M H K ;

Right hand is "generally" the same as  standard fingering.

And keep on practising. You'll be up to 350cpm in no time!  :)

I think that's the baseline that everyone can and should try to achieve. Beyond that requires familiarity with whole words and phrases that only comes with a lot of repetition and drilling.

And last but not least.... my current speed after 80 days... HAS SLOWED DOWN TO 70WPM again. It's mainly due to the higher-than-average error rate I've started to exhibit.

I know it's from lack of practise (unless, maybe all the QWERTY keyboards lying around has affected me on a subconscious level...hahaha), but I never had this happen when I learnt dvorak. In fact, I feel like I need to concentrate a lot more with colemak than I ever had to do with dvorak.

I'll be updating in a week or so...or when I hit my 90 days.

Until then, cheers everyone!

(EDIT: oops, forgot to include the L for the left hand fingering)

Umm, don't know what you mean by that, seeing as the layout above doesn't really change anything... care to elaborate?

And, by the way, I had the same experience the first time I tried straight colemak. I really had to concentrate or my speed would would drop back to/below 70wpm.

Anyway, the layout I posted above is from my MS Ergo keyboard and is comfort oriented--the only real change being the VGP block, and the fingering doesn't change, just the hand position. It is definitely an improvement over the original colemak layout wrt comfort. (Actually, on my laptop, the comfort is even more pronounced because I also did a c-w block rotation for the JKM keys, and swapped the K and V keys. However, since it's too confusing switching back and forth between the two, I'm just sticking to my grid-layout until I'm finished with this experiment.)

Perhaps by "not very similar", you actually mean "almost the same"? ... lol ;)

And finally, these are my recommendations for future adopters. Remember, this is just the personal opinion of one person, so take it as is...

1. If you are typing at or above 75wpm, DO NOT SWITCH LAYOUTS unless you are experiencing discomfort. If you are experiencing discomfort, get a better keyboard, learn to type with less force, and/or take frequent breaks and stretch out my hands, rather than risk losing productivity.

2. If you are typing between 60 and 75wpm, and you are a QWERTY user, you SHOULD consider switching to Colemak, but NOT Dvorak. Colemak is more comfortable/interesting to type on than QWERTY and the typing dynamics doesn't change much, as opposed to DVORAK which has a very different typing style. Learning Dvorak will probably end up being a waste of time since Colemak is essentially the "dvorak for qwerty users" with a much closer typing style.

3. If you are typing between 60 and 75wpm, and you are a Dvorak user, you SHOULD NOT consider switching to Colemak and instead consider sticking with Dvorak. You will likely not be as fast as your Dvorak speed since it requires a very different typing style. You'll probably find it less intuitive and less comfortable, closer to the feel of Qwerty.

Personally, I have found no advantages to learning Colemak except the challenge of learning the layout itself. For full disclosure, I have decided to switch to a modified layout closer to dvorak.

4. If you do not know how to touch type and are considering learning, DO NOT LEARN QWERTY. Pick either DVORAK or COLEMAK (or one of the alternate layouts available) instead. If you like the typing characteristics of QWERTY, the shortcut keys, and "slick combos", go with to COLEMAK. If you are well coordinated with alternating your hands, you don't care about the shortcut keys, and you perfer a more "free-form/natural" rhythm, go with DVORAK.

Ultimately though, your preferred typing style should dictate the layout you choose to adopt.

It's been a fun ride, but sadly... this is where I get off.

It's a pity you're leaving, but understandable given the circumstances/data. You're input was always very informative and your recommendations above look very reasonable and helpful - thanks.

So you're switching to a layout closer to Dvorak - I'd be interested to know what you're changing. I.e. are you starting from original Dvorak and then modifying it, or taking your mirrored and modded Colemak and modifying it toward a Dvorak-ish layout, or something completely different?

I don't think my conclusions were rash at all. I was trying very hard to like m-colemak (it's now my second favourite layout behind m-dvorak), but in the end, my data supported my subjective impressions - without a doubt, it is more difficult for me to type fast on colemak than on dvorak.

It only became evident as I got faster on m-colemak and my fingers started feeling "tongue-tied." I didn't notice all this until I tried to type faster than 80wpm. I also recently noticed that there was too much time wasted in having one of my hands wait until the other hand finished completing a combo - The downside to lower hand-alternation.

Without constant practise and concentration, my speed would drop back down to 70-75wpm. I never experienced this with dvorak - the worst were transposition errors but it still felt relatively more comfortable and my fingers never felt "tongue-tied".

Before starting this experiment, I thought my problem was the high hand alternation impeding my progress. But after all this practise and the resulting data, I realised that I should have focused on improving my accuracy with dvorak instead of switching layouts.

The good thing is that I carefully documented my progress so now I no longer have any lingering doubts about whether colemak is better suited for me (even though I tried really hard to convince myself of that early on) and I ended up sifting through a lot of data to realise that a dvorak type layout is indeed my best bet for typing above 100wpm.

I'm still not sure about a final layout since I've been too busy with other things but I want the homerow to be like a modified dvorak (something like OEAIU DHTNS). I also want to keep my ring and middle fingers moving together, and not apart, as much as possible.... and I guess I just have to practise coordinating my two hands.

(...not much practise for a week and I'm back down to 68-72 wpm @ 99+% accuracy on m-colemak.)

Also I'd like to see your modified Dvorak. I noticed that you put E on the weaker ring finger.

I find it interesting that you don't like Colemak because of bad hand alternation, even though it is better than the hand alternation of most layouts, like Arensito.

This will be quick - switched back to dvorak with a few minor key swaps. I definitely like this typing style better.

Before the switch, I had been contemplating modifying colemak by putting the A on a thumb key (or putting the E on thumb, and moving the A to the E position), but decided against it due to the difficulty of switching back and forth between keyboards with thumb keys and those without.

Anyway, day 7 and just hit 40wpm. And now I can say for sure that dvorak feels better overall.

I think the best was I can put it is that Dvorak feels like a straight and level road. Colemak is like a rollercoaster, with very good highs but not so good lows.

In the same manner, I would say that Qwerty is like a miniature rollercoaster, but with more bumps. haha :)

Ah. You're reading that line in the wrong context - it's not referring to the Colemak layout. When I decided to switch, it was because I didn't like the high hand alteration of *dvorak* - it was causing too many transposition errors when I tried to type fast.

On the contrary, I liked the reduced hand alteration in Colemak, but ended up experiencing other problems with the layout (which I only started to notice after I got up past the 75wpm mark.)

The pinky to ring are fine as long as the roll continues inward. The really bothersome rolls are the pinky-ring-pinky and the ring-pinky-ring rolls. The problem is exacerbated when the pinky-ring-pinky rolls continue on to the other fingers. If only I played more piano...then I'd actually be used to it! :)

Yeah, I like that about your layout. It keeps the pinky and middle fingers relatively free from (what I consider) akward rolls, so good job there.

But now that I've gone back to dvorak (with a few letters swapped), I actually prefer the high hand alteration. I'll just have to fix my coordination a bit. :)

Now, the only thing left to do to satisfy my curiosity is to use my thumb for a couple of common keys and do another experiment when school ends in the winter time.

Back on dvorak for 15 days. Just hit 60 on a 2 minute typing test under Dvorak, which is a new record for me, but I think I got totally lucky. My current average is between 45 and 55 now.

I have also been practicing constantly these last couple of days and my dvorak muscle memory is definitely returning.. I can "zone out" and my fingers actually wanna type in dvorak now.

My mirrored-colemak speed has dropped to approx. 30-35 wpm.

Everything is feeling "back to normal" now. Just hope I get back to my normal speed by next month...