• You are not logged in.

Use of special characters layout?

  • Started by SpeedMorph
  • 40 Replies:
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 17-Mar-2008
  • Posts: 192

No. Something like this will be too involved for general use, and the ones with high enough geekness to go for it will either be able to map it themselves or find it on your/Tomlu's/whatever site it will reside on eventually. Furthermore, Shai has already expressed his inability to devote time to maintaining multiple versions of Colemak so "optional add-ons" are off the menu I think.

I agree. Useful though I think this is, it's orthogonal to Colemak (it could just as well be used with qwerty) and shouldn't be included. Let's keep Colemak nice and focused.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,362
simonh said:

I noticed the extend mode in the latest PKL. I haven't yet figured out how to use it with Colemak though. For that matter does anyone know what Prolemak is? And why Colemak was not included with PKL instead of being a layout you have to download separately?

- Prolemak is Farkas Máté's own layout. You can see that it's very inspired by Colemak, but he chose to move around some keys. As the moved keys include rarely used ones that I think should've been left alone and shortcut keys such as B and W, I don't quite agree his layout but maybe it's good for typing Hungarian? No arguing with the fact that he likes it at least!  ;)

- Colemak and colemak-inspired layouts is one of the many layout packages you can download for PKL. You can also get layouts that remap only part of your standard keyboard, different variants of Dvorak and others, and layouts for typing classical Hebrew or Greek, diacritics and all! PKL is so much larger now than just a Colemak mapping. You can also download a separate standalone Colemak, which runs Colemak but none of the many other layouts - good if you want something simple and compact. Under Standalone layouts there's Colemak, Prolemak and that oddball EntiKey which was made by a German guy for typing one-handed (or two-handed if you wish). Haven't looked into that one.

- To use the Extend key in a layout that has this functionality (such as Prolemak), you hold down the designated key (Prolemak uses CapsLock) and hit another (or several) to produce a remapped keypress whereas the original function of the 'extend' key is only realized if it is released without pressing another key with it. The results are mapped in the pkl.ini file I think, so there's one Extend mode in PKL common for the layouts and the layout itself only specifies an Extend key. This is very similar to what I'm after, but only has one mode where I'm after several. In fact, if you try the Prolemak with the help image on and press CapsLock (provided you still have one, hehe!) you'll see that the nav keys use the same layout that I'm after! UNEI for the arrow keys, JH for PgUp/PgDn and ;O for Ins/Del (I'm still undecided on whether to switch JH and ;O but the idea is the same). The cool thing is that you're sending "real" blind keystrokes and not just character codes with it, so that, e.g., holding down shift/capslock/ctrl/i in Prolemak will give you a shift-ctrl-arrow which selects one word forwards!

Once again, I start looking into something cool and Farkas has already done it very well.

If you want the Extend/Transpose functionality in your layout in PKL, you can add a line in the layout.ini under the [global] section, like for instance the one from Prolemak:
[global]
extend_key = CapsLock

Keep in mind that if you use a commonly used key for this, the 'key-on-up' way of working may get annoying as will the accidentally transposed keys if you type fast. Therefore a rarely used key (such as CapsLock, the left Win key(?), or a rarely used letter such as Q or Z) is preferrable to anything you use much.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 27-Apr-2008
  • Posts: 166

Is anyone else finding this remapping of Alt Gr to be very slow? This is what I get when holding AltGr + Q for a few fractions of a second:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!qqqqqqqqqqq

When I take my finger off the key the text stills keeps on coming! Along with those unwanted q's. Here is my 'layout.ini' (using PKL)

[layout]
;scan = VK    CapStat    0Norm    1Sh    2Ctrl    6AGr    7AGrSh    Caps    CapsSh
SC002 = 1    0    1    !    --    ¡    ¹    ; QWERTY 1!
SC003 = 2    0    2    @    --    º    ²    ; QWERTY 2@
SC004 = 3    0    3    #    --    ª    ³    ; QWERTY 3#
SC005 = 4    0    4    $    --    ¢    £    ; QWERTY 4$
SC006 = 5    0    5    %    --    €    ¥    ; QWERTY 5%
SC007 = 6    4    6    ^    --    ħ    Ħ    ; QWERTY 6^
SC008 = 7    4    7    &    --    ð    Ð    ; QWERTY 7&
SC009 = 8    4    8    *    --    þ    Þ    ; QWERTY 8*
SC00a = 9    0    9    (    --    ‘    “    ; QWERTY 9(
SC00b = 0    0    0    )    --    ’    ”    ; QWERTY 0)
SC00c = OEM_MINUS    0    -    _    --    –    —    ; QWERTY -_
SC00d = OEM_PLUS    0    =    +    --    ×    ÷    ; QWERTY =+
SC010 = Q    5    q    Q    --    !    Ä    ; QWERTY qQ
SC011 = W    5    w    W    --    ?    Å    ; QWERTY wW
SC012 = F    5    f    F    --    <    Ã    ; QWERTY eE
SC013 = P    5    p    P    --    >    Ø    ; QWERTY rR
SC014 = G    1    g    G    --    *    ~    ; QWERTY tT
SC015 = J    5    j    J    --    ={PgUp}    Đ    ; QWERTY yY
SC016 = L    5    l    L    --    ={Home}    Ł    ; QWERTY uU
SC017 = U    5    u    U    --    ={Up}    Ú    ; QWERTY iI
SC018 = Y    5    y    Y    --    ={End}    Ü    ; QWERTY oO
SC019 = OEM_1    4    ;    :    \    ~    Ö    ; QWERTY pP
SC01a = OEM_4    0    [    {    --    «    ‹    ; QWERTY [{
SC01b = OEM_6    0    ]    }    --    »    ›    ; QWERTY ]}
CapsLock = OEM_1    0    ={backspace}    *{CapsLock}    ={backspace}    ={backspace}    ={backspace}    ; Caps Lock
SC01e = A    5    a    A    --    -    Á    ; QWERTY aA
SC01f = R    1    r    R    --    _    ~    ; QWERTY sS
SC020 = S    5    s    S    --    (    ~    ; QWERTY dD
SC021 = T    5    t    T    --    )    .    ; QWERTY fF
SC022 = D    1    d    D    --    @    ~    ; QWERTY gG
SC023 = H    1    h    H    --    ={PgDn}    ~    ; QWERTY hH
SC024 = N    5    n    N    --    ={Left}    Ñ    ; QWERTY jJ
SC025 = E    5    e    E    --    ={Down}    É    ; QWERTY kK
SC026 = I    5    i    I    --    ={Right}    Í    ; QWERTY lL
SC027 = O    5    o    O    --    }    Ó    ; QWERTY ;:
SC028 = OEM_7    4    '    "    --    ={Delete}    Õ    ; QWERTY '"
SC029 = OEM_3    0    `    ~    --    .    ~    ; QWERTY `~
SC02b = OEM_5    0    \        --    .    ~    ; QWERTY \|
SC02c = Z    5    z    Z    --    |    Æ    ; QWERTY zZ
SC02d = X    1    x    X    --     \    ~    ; QWERTY xX
SC02e = C    5    c    C    --    /    Ç    ; QWERTY cC
SC02f = V    5    v    V    --    +    Œ    ; QWERTY vV
SC030 = B    1    b    B    --    =    ~    ; QWERTY bB
SC031 = K    1    k    K    --    ={Left}    ~    ; QWERTY nN
SC032 = M    5    m    M    --    ={Right}    ~    ; QWERTY mM
SC033 = OEM_COMMA    4    ,    <    --    ={Up}    ; QWERTY ,<
SC034 = OEM_PERIOD    4    .    >    --    ={Down}    ; QWERTY .>
SC035 = RAlt    modifier                        ; QWERTY OEM_102
SC039 = SPACE    0    ={space}    ={space}    --    ={space}         ; QWERTY Space
SC056 = RAlt    modifier                        ; QWERTY OEM_102
SC053 = DECIMAL    0    .    .    --    --    --    ; QWERTY Decimal in Numpad
Last edited by simonh (13-Oct-2008 14:24:40)

"It is an undoubted truth, that the less one has to do, the less time one finds to do it in." - Earl of Chesterfield

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 08-Mar-2008
  • Posts: 303
simonh said:

Is anyone else finding this remapping of Alt Gr to be very slow? This is what I get when holding AltGr + Q for a few fractions of a second:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!qqqqqqqqqqq

When I take my finger off the key the text stills keeps on coming! Along with those unwanted q's. Here is my 'layout.ini' (using PKL)

[layout]
;scan = VK    CapStat    0Norm    1Sh    2Ctrl    6AGr    7AGrSh    Caps    CapsSh
SC002 = 1    0    1    !    --    ¡    ¹    ; QWERTY 1!
SC003 = 2    0    2    @    --    º    ²    ; QWERTY 2@
SC004 = 3    0    3    #    --    ª    ³    ; QWERTY 3#
SC005 = 4    0    4    $    --    ¢    £    ; QWERTY 4$
SC006 = 5    0    5    %    --    €    ¥    ; QWERTY 5%
SC007 = 6    4    6    ^    --    ħ    Ħ    ; QWERTY 6^
SC008 = 7    4    7    &    --    ð    Ð    ; QWERTY 7&
SC009 = 8    4    8    *    --    þ    Þ    ; QWERTY 8*
SC00a = 9    0    9    (    --    ‘    “    ; QWERTY 9(
SC00b = 0    0    0    )    --    ’    ”    ; QWERTY 0)
SC00c = OEM_MINUS    0    -    _    --    –    —    ; QWERTY -_
SC00d = OEM_PLUS    0    =    +    --    ×    ÷    ; QWERTY =+
SC010 = Q    5    q    Q    --    !    Ä    ; QWERTY qQ
SC011 = W    5    w    W    --    ?    Å    ; QWERTY wW
SC012 = F    5    f    F    --    <    Ã    ; QWERTY eE
SC013 = P    5    p    P    --    >    Ø    ; QWERTY rR
SC014 = G    1    g    G    --    *    ~    ; QWERTY tT
SC015 = J    5    j    J    --    ={PgUp}    Đ    ; QWERTY yY
SC016 = L    5    l    L    --    ={Home}    Ł    ; QWERTY uU
SC017 = U    5    u    U    --    ={Up}    Ú    ; QWERTY iI
SC018 = Y    5    y    Y    --    ={End}    Ü    ; QWERTY oO
SC019 = OEM_1    4    ;    :    \    ~    Ö    ; QWERTY pP
SC01a = OEM_4    0    [    {    --    «    ‹    ; QWERTY [{
SC01b = OEM_6    0    ]    }    --    »    ›    ; QWERTY ]}
CapsLock = OEM_1    0    ={backspace}    *{CapsLock}    ={backspace}    ={backspace}    ={backspace}    ; Caps Lock
SC01e = A    5    a    A    --    -    Á    ; QWERTY aA
SC01f = R    1    r    R    --    _    ~    ; QWERTY sS
SC020 = S    5    s    S    --    (    ~    ; QWERTY dD
SC021 = T    5    t    T    --    )    .    ; QWERTY fF
SC022 = D    1    d    D    --    @    ~    ; QWERTY gG
SC023 = H    1    h    H    --    ={PgDn}    ~    ; QWERTY hH
SC024 = N    5    n    N    --    ={Left}    Ñ    ; QWERTY jJ
SC025 = E    5    e    E    --    ={Down}    É    ; QWERTY kK
SC026 = I    5    i    I    --    ={Right}    Í    ; QWERTY lL
SC027 = O    5    o    O    --    }    Ó    ; QWERTY ;:
SC028 = OEM_7    4    '    "    --    ={Delete}    Õ    ; QWERTY '"
SC029 = OEM_3    0    `    ~    --    .    ~    ; QWERTY `~
SC02b = OEM_5    0    \        --    .    ~    ; QWERTY \|
SC02c = Z    5    z    Z    --    |    Æ    ; QWERTY zZ
SC02d = X    1    x    X    --     \    ~    ; QWERTY xX
SC02e = C    5    c    C    --    /    Ç    ; QWERTY cC
SC02f = V    5    v    V    --    +    Œ    ; QWERTY vV
SC030 = B    1    b    B    --    =    ~    ; QWERTY bB
SC031 = K    1    k    K    --    ={Left}    ~    ; QWERTY nN
SC032 = M    5    m    M    --    ={Right}    ~    ; QWERTY mM
SC033 = OEM_COMMA    4    ,    <    --    ={Up}    ; QWERTY ,<
SC034 = OEM_PERIOD    4    .    >    --    ={Down}    ; QWERTY .>
SC035 = RAlt    modifier                        ; QWERTY OEM_102
SC039 = SPACE    0    ={space}    ={space}    --    ={space}         ; QWERTY Space
SC056 = RAlt    modifier                        ; QWERTY OEM_102
SC053 = DECIMAL    0    .    .    --    --    --    ; QWERTY Decimal in Numpad

Where do you put in that code to remap your keyboard? Does it work on a Mac?

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,362

PKL is Maté Farkas' AutoHotkey script for a portable keyboard layout. So no, you can't use that on a Mac.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 27-Apr-2008
  • Posts: 166

DreymaR: Is it better to use the official installed version? If so do you know how I can remap |\ and /? to be Alt Gr?

Using PKL is too slow to be of use. It's fine for typing single characters but using it for navigation ala Colemak.vim is not viable.

"It is an undoubted truth, that the less one has to do, the less time one finds to do it in." - Earl of Chesterfield

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 17-Mar-2008
  • Posts: 192

I personally use a two-tiered approach: I have a custom-created layout such as the one installed by the Colemak installation (in fact I use the Colemak installer on other computers but with a switcherooed DLL).

Then, on top of that I have a small AutoHotKey script that remaps the two extra AltGr keys and a couple other non-related things. You could instead of using AutoHotKey use a program like keytweak to remap the Windows registry to give you the AltGrs you're looking for. I find that AutoHotKey affords a little more flexibility which is why I use it.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 27-Apr-2008
  • Posts: 166

Is their a speed issue with your approach tomlu? I was wondering whether altering these lines from Colemak.klc might do it...?

2b    OEM_5        0    005c    007c    -1    002a@    007e        // REVERSE SOLIDUS, VERTICAL LINE, <none>, SPECIAL, TILDE
35    OEM_2        0    002f    003f    -1    00bf    007e        // SOLIDUS, QUESTION MARK, <none>, INVERTED QUESTION MARK, TILDE

Could it be as simple as changing those to be Alt Gr and then using continue using PKL.

Last edited by simonh (15-Oct-2008 10:59:02)

"It is an undoubted truth, that the less one has to do, the less time one finds to do it in." - Earl of Chesterfield

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 17-Mar-2008
  • Posts: 192

There is no speed issue with my approach since AutoHotKey does very little.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,362

Not sure why you have these speed issues. Do you have anything else that uses a keyboard hook? Multiple hooks can get sticky (such as my experimental script competing with a running PKL).

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 27-Apr-2008
  • Posts: 166

No, I'm just using PKL. The problem is pretty much solved now anyway.

I have modified Prolemak_en to be Colemak in the latest PKL version. The VK_102 key is already remapped to Alt Gr so I just had to remap /? to it as well.

I think it's very clever what Farkas has done with the CapsLock key. I now have three modifier keys accessible from the home row!

I've also noticed that capslock as the extend key works exactly like the original key (no slow down).

Last edited by simonh (16-Oct-2008 13:15:08)

"It is an undoubted truth, that the less one has to do, the less time one finds to do it in." - Earl of Chesterfield

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 17-Mar-2008
  • Posts: 192

Speaking of what Farkas did to Caps Lock: My z key is remapped to AltGr. I experimented with triggering a z on release if no other key was pressed, similar to Farkas, but for alphabetic characters it turns out not to work too well.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 27-Apr-2008
  • Posts: 166

It must be something special with CapsLock. I noticed that the VK_102 key has the same 'slow' problem. I've tried with PS/2 and USB keyboards and I'd say that ------------------------------------------------------------aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I let my finger off the keys when I reached the full stop (period) after CapsLock. Can anyone else confirm this using PKL latest version. Just to be sure I'm not doing something stupid?

"It is an undoubted truth, that the less one has to do, the less time one finds to do it in." - Earl of Chesterfield

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 24-May-2008
  • Posts: 23

one thing that bothers me about remapping altGr...
I just recently learned that the proper way to do chord (e.g. alt + key) is to use alternative hands, and never use the same hand (which I used to do! ctrl +c with two hands? blasphemy!). It looks like this is a big improvement. Ergonomically, chords are bad. I have pain in my hands and can tell already how much things have improved.

So consider this before remapping one side of modifier keys. I was doing this too...

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 17-Mar-2008
  • Posts: 192

I have one AltGr on each hand, so my chording is correct in that regard.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 214
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,362

Chords aren't bad by themselves I think, but awkward chords are very bad. I'm a bit surprised actually, at the fact that I don't feel my very frequent use of CapsLock for chording as awkward or painful - it does imply an increased use of the left pinky, and sometimes with other left-hand keys in chords!

For instance, to get an Esc keypress I'll press CapsLock plus Q. Pinky plus ring finger. Why isn't that difficult? I think it's because there's no stretch nor significant angling involved. I did feel the need to solve the problem of having to hit CapsLock together with Ctrl and/or Shift - on some keyboards it went well (I'd use the side/base of my pinky!) but not on others such as laptop boards. The solution is to use home row keys; again, no angling needed and little stretching.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0