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    a stage of learning where you can't type either layout?

    • Started by slightlystoopid
    • 17 Replies:
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 09-Feb-2010
    • Posts: 4

    so I've been using strictly colemak for a couple weeks now. currently typing in the 20s or 30s, just sucking up the irritation of not being able to type what I'm thinking as I'm thinking it. I used to type around 120 wpm in qwerty measured when I first started learning colemak in gtypist. Ironically, if you asked me where any of the keys in qwerty are, I'd have no idea. I learned to type qwerty when I was 12, 12 years ago, qwerty had become like an extension of my body. Well, now I've found I can't type on qwerty anymore without looking combined with an annoying habit of hitting the caps lock key instead of backspace. I think I might have to start rotating days with the two layouts.

    So my question to all who have to use both, are you able to switch between the two at will/need while maintaining 100+ wpm in both? I guess I need some reassurance here.

    Also, what was your original qwerty wpm compared to your current colemak wpm? is it much faster?

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    • Registered: 05-Jan-2010
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    I avoid QWERTY at all costs, so my QWERTY speed might be around... I've not actually measured it since the switch. Well, it seems to be about 25 WPM. When I started out with Colemak a little less than two months ago it was at 70-80 WPM. I have no intention to maintain proficiency in both layouts, so I might be the wrong person to comment on this matter, but it should be possible to type using both layouts. If you with to do this by first learning Colemak and then introducing QWERTY again slowly, or integrate QWERTY in your Colemak learning, I guess is up to you.

    Also, a link you might find interesting: http://www.ryanheise.com/colemak/

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    • Registered: 09-Feb-2010
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    interesting. nice link, thanks.

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    • From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
    • Registered: 11-Jun-2007
    • Posts: 86

    I managed to maintain proficiency in both layouts by alternating between them from day one using a "qwerty by day, Colemak by night" approach. Once I was fast enough to be able to use Colemak at work (over 30 wpm) I switched to using it pretty much full time, except when I had to log into servers etc.

    At first it typically took me ten minutes or so to switch between layouts, but these days I find it's pretty much effortless. Having said that, I do find myself typing Colemakisms when I have to use a colleague's computer to show them what to do, though that doesn't really bother me.

    Since you're up to about 20-30 words per minute you're probably pretty close to the point where Colemak "clicks," and you can touch type in it without having to stop and think where such and such a letter is. That being the case I'd recommend you use Colemak as your main layout but switch back to qwerty for an hour or so every day.

    My final speed (about 80-85 words per minute) is probably only slightly faster than my origina qwerty speed, but I have found a massive improvement in both accuracy and comfort. With qwerty I was making typos typically two or three times a word. Nowadays I make typos typically two or three times a sentence.

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,361

    'Colemakisms' - cool word!  :)

    'C;ukman' is a colemakism!

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • Registered: 09-Feb-2010
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    well, I quit using colemak for a couple days and qwerty started feeling like normal again, that is typing without thinking about typing. now I guess the test is just to see if I can gain that and be faster with colemak. Gonna take some time though, and I am going to alternate between them at least every three days to stay bilayoutal.

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,361

    I haven't paid any attention to my QWERTY whatsoever since I started with Colemak, and I honestly believe that it's better now than when I left it! Takes some looking at the keyboard in the start, but then it just flows. I think the best would be to focus on Colemak until you have it down and then everything will sort itself out afterwards. But just do whatever works for you.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • Registered: 07-Aug-2007
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    If you have both layouts in your history, then it will be easy to switch completely from one to the other with your best speed in that layout.  It will take about 3-4 days of flailing, no more.  What is not going to be easy is to maintain your best speed in both simultaneously.

    I was very surprised by this phenomenon: I was expecting rougher weather when I switched from Colemak to Qwerty and then back to Colemak.  Please note I am not talking about learning a completely new layout; you must have known both layouts well once.  It basically means that learning Colemak "cold turkey" does not carry a penalty should you later -- even after many years -- find that you should go back to Qwerty.

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    • From: Belgium
    • Registered: 26-Feb-2008
    • Posts: 482

    I also think a well-established layout stays in your memory for many years.

    I rarely type in Qwerty anymore, but I noticed once when I was very tired, I suddenly started typing Qwerty again. :-)

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    • Registered: 18-Apr-2009
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    From personal experience I typed about 55-60 before in qwerty and when I started colemak seriously I caught up in about a month or so.  I type 60ish in colemak now and 55-60 in qwerty (although there was a period where qwerty went down when I decided not to use it much now I use it 1h+ a day to stay w it).  If you use colemak for about half your typing (don't switch back and forth choose when and stay with it) then you will prob take arround that time.  If you go cold turkey then it would be faster but qwerty will suffer.

    Yes sometimes in between you will also have a bit messy for both.  If you try to keep it in blocks of use then it will mostly be transaction time.  I used to take about 5min to get back now I can switch fully in about 30sec  (faster switch but for just the same speed but about that for accuracy).

    Last edited by nO_LAG (02-Mar-2010 17:53:45)
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    • Registered: 11-Oct-2010
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    it probably applies in typing too. i find that when my lap times don't improve. i take a rest from racing.

    when i'm back again in a few months, the improvement is tremendous. potential is much higher.

    how are you doing now?

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    • Registered: 11-Oct-2013
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    I type in russian йцукен fluently about 20 years, I type in qwerty more or less about one year and now I type in colemak about 10 days. I think I have quite good progress with colemak. This is a very interesting layout. I try to forget qwerty. It is not so difficult for me because it is not so imprinted layout for my brain.

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,361

    Nice, Alexander! Did you see the various Russian Colemak options like Rulemak (links in my locale variants topic)?

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • Registered: 11-Oct-2013
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    Yes, I did. Thank you. Of course Rulemak is not optimized for Russian but it can be useful for an english-speaking person who learned Colemak and want to type Russian without trying to learn йцукен. Йцукен is not ideal layout but it is much better than qwerty.

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    • Registered: 26-Nov-2013
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    I used Qwerty since childhood, and have been touch typing Qwerty for over 10 years. I switched to Colemak on my PC, Android phone, and jailbroken iPad, and after 8 months of typing purely with Colemak, I can't effectively type with Qwerty anymore without looking at the keys. I can still type quickly with Qwerty if I look at the keys, but without looking my speed is around a letter per second and my errors are many. The keys feel like they are in the most ludicrous of positions, (which is why I had the desire to try Colemak to begin with). I have switched back to Qwerty for the time being until I can touch type in this layout again. Then I will switch back to Colemak once again. My opinion of the Colemak layout after 8 months of use is extremely high. With that said, I have no desire to try the Backspace/CapsLock swap that the pure layout involves.

    I learned Colemak by switching to it and deactivating Qwerty entirely. I printed out the layout and kept it on my desk in front of me. After a week I removed it, and only used it when I had to type quickly. Eventually I did not need the guide and I threw it away. It was frustratingly inefficient writing emails at work for a couple weeks but clearly it was worth it for me.

    Last edited by rednukleus (27-Nov-2013 19:20:43)
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    • Registered: 04-Apr-2013
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    Colemak isn't the best layout for touchscreens, see this thread.

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    • Registered: 26-Nov-2013
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    Thanks lalop. I installed MessagEase on my Android phone. It seems intuitive enough to be easy to get used to. I disabled the trails because they looked amateurish. The only thing I don't understand is why there is an out of place white letter C label in the upper left hand corner of the keyboard.

    Last edited by rednukleus (27-Nov-2013 19:16:59)
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    • From: Belgium
    • Registered: 26-Feb-2008
    • Posts: 482

    It's a "compose" key, to create a large number of extra (eg. accented) characters.  Read the documentation by long-pressing the hand key > FAQ > More special characters.

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