• You are not logged in.
  • Index
  • General
  • Colemak article in Esperanto Wikipedia

    Colemak article in Esperanto Wikipedia

    • Started by learncolemak
    • 6 Replies:
    • Reputation: 0
    • From: Berlin, Germany
    • Registered: 13-Mar-2010
    • Posts: 17

    I took the deleted English WP article, modified it a bit, and translated it to Esperanto:
    https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colemak

    How did I read the deleted article?  Well, I founded the Esperanto Wikipedia back in November 2001 (now over 125,000 articles) and at that time also became an admin of the English Wikipedia, so I can see deleted articles.  I also added Colemak to the listings of keyboard layouts in the general article about keyboard layouts: https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klavarofasono

    I now have three Esperanto friends who are planning to learn Colemak (two have already installed it and one is currently working to add better multilingual support for foreign languages typists).  I think this is a very interesting audience, because like Linux users, Esperanto speakers tend to be very open to alternatives, even those that take a while to learn.  ...and let's face it, if someone spends a year or two to learn a relatively small language, then that kind of person would also be more inclined to spend 1-2 months to learn a new keyboard layout.

    I have to admit though that I'm starting to get annoyed by the amount of Esperanto friends who get offended by the somewhat offhand question in the FAQ: "Isn't Colemak doomed to irrelevancy like Esperanto?"  While the point between language and keyboard layout is well said, it would be nice if you could be a bit nicer to our language: a language which I've used as my primary language for 2 years of my life and still use daily.  I would propose the following wording of the answer which makes the case for Colemak even stronger:

    The main difference is that in order to communicate you need other to find other people that speak the same language, but even Esperanto has enough speakers to make it useful for many purposes. You don't need to make other people switch keyboard layouts in order to use Colemak. It takes significantly less time to learn a keyboard layout than it takes to learn a language. I'm hoping Colemak will eventually overtake Dvorak, but unfortunately QWERTY will continue to be the standard forevermore.

    Alternatively, if you don't like that answer, just leaving out "like Esperanto" in the question would go a long way toward not attacking us.  Thanks.

    Learn Colemak, no download necessary: www.learncolemak.com

    Offline
    • 0
    • Shai
    • Administrator
    • Reputation: 36
    • Registered: 11-Dec-2005
    • Posts: 423

    I can't say that I'm a big fan of Esperanto. I pretty much agree with every single point in this criticism.

    Taking the keyboard layout to language analogy, Esperanto would be the "Dvorak" of languages. I think something like Basic English would be the "Colemak" of languages.

    Nevertheless, I agree that there's no need to alienate or offend anyone, and I did rewrite it.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 214
    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,362

    Saluton! Me ankau parolis ete esperanton, sed ne longtempe.  ;)

    Nice of you to make this entry - I hope it is allowed to stay there. I agree that the wording on our page is a bit offensive although I'm sure you understand its intended meaning: Esperanto has never taken off in any larger scale despite of it being so nice and easy to learn and whatnot, and one major reason for that is that as an esperantist you can't be sure the person you encounter knows it too (and most of the time you can be pretty sure he or she doesn't).

    Would there be any need for a 'baza Colemak klavaro por Esperanto'? If so, I could help make the files for it. Your friend who's working on the multilingual part might be interested in some of my work in that field, by the way. Have him/her contact me here if so and we'll have a chat.

    Last edited by DreymaR (17-Mar-2010 12:20:47)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • From: Berlin, Germany
    • Registered: 13-Mar-2010
    • Posts: 17

    Shai, thank you very much for the change to the FAQ.  We appreciate it!  I don't ask you to be a fan of Esperanto, just to respect it. :)  Anyway, I think the point is worth making about the difference between a language and a keyboard layout, so I'm glad you decided to keep it.  Also, I emailed you about keyboard layout installation changes in Snow Leopard on Mac and didn't hear back, so I'm not sure if you got it.

    DreymaR, I realize in the traditional sense Esperanto has failed, but there is a vibrant worldwide community of speakers and there's even two schools of thought... some that want Esperanto to become the second language for everyone and others that really just want it to remain a small community, so it's possible to easily meet interesting people abroad and have a common language at the same time.  Strange as it may sound, I fall somewhat between the two schools.

    About an Esperanto keyboard, I modified Colemak myself with a dead key to type Esperanto and German letters.  I can send it to you if you'd like.  I did it with Ukelele on my Mac.  My friend said she'll write you soon on the forum about her attempts at a usable multilingual Colemak.  Thanks!

    Learn Colemak, no download necessary: www.learncolemak.com

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • From: Berlin, Germany
    • Registered: 13-Mar-2010
    • Posts: 17

    As a side note, the Esperanto Wikipedia article inspired the following Russian blog post:

    http://lingvomania.info/2010/alternativa-dvoraka.html

    :)

    Learn Colemak, no download necessary: www.learncolemak.com

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 214
    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,362

    If you speak Russian, give them a tip about Rulemak (by ghen) as well will you?

       RulemakBoardFig_by_ghen.png

    Klaviatur' vojna!  :)

    Last edited by DreymaR (19-Mar-2010 09:08:25)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 23
    • From: Belgium
    • Registered: 26-Feb-2008
    • Posts: 482

    Here's the topic on Rulemak (scroll down for final version), with links to implementations for UNIX (xkb) and Windows (pkl).  It's primarily intended for non-Russians (using mostly Colemak and typing Russian occasionally) though, not maximally optimized for efficiency.

    Here's a post comparing Rulemak with ЙЦУКЕН, Diktor (an optimized Russian layout for day-to-day use), and the evil Яверты.

    Last edited by ghen (19-Mar-2010 11:32:54)
    Offline
    • 0
      • Index
      • General
      • Colemak article in Esperanto Wikipedia