Heheh, really? It was inspired by the Programmer Dvorak layout, but I moved the () and [] underneath the left middle and index finger and right middle and index finger respectively because those are the most commonly used symbols matlab and python (which are what I use most). And the curly braces are placed symmetrically under the ring fingers. It feels pretty comfortable to me, but YMMV. Much more so than the original placement.

How would you lay out the braces? I'm still learning/testing the layout, so am interested in any input/suggestions.

Cheers

What about just using the symbol layout from the Programmer Dvorak keyboard?

Okay, I'm going back to the default Colemak layout for now, and I'll mess with the symbols later. I realize that the placement of the symbols above was very comfortable, but I wasn't using all of the right fingers for the keys. I modified it again by moving a couple of the parentheses around and using the proper fingers, but I think I'm just going to stick with the default layout for now while I'm learning. Then I'll give the symbols another go. Probably will be something really similar to what I have above, since like I said it feels pretty comfortable regardless of the above comments. :-D

Are you suggesting me to read this thread: https://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?id=524 ?

In the past, I've considered such a layout (where symbols are to be accessed by AltGr), but after a bit of practice, I deemed such a solution not to be effective. Having to issue two keystrokes (Arensito style) for each symbol felt more cumbersome than hitting keys on the number row (Programmer Dvorak style), in spite of such keys being farther. Keep in mind that since I use a Vim clone as my editor of choice, besides using symbols for code, I heavily use them for moving around too. I also have to add that I like having regular Alt on both sides of the keyboard (maybe I could have worked around this by using dead keys, DDvorak style).

Currently, I'm not in the mood to design my own layout for programmers and Vim users. If I ever manage to accomplish something, I'd like to hear your opinions about it.

Anyway, thank you for your suggestion, DreymaR.

Thank you for stopping by, Tomlu. I suppose this is a very subjective issue, then. Nice to explore both approaches...

Thank you for posting it. I have a question: did you consider the Enter key while positioning symbols? I mean, it think that (); should be on the opposite side of Enter (this is less an issue for {}[] since they are less common in programming languages).

Hey, I'm back! :)

I've stuck with the Colemak layout and can now type between 55-60 wpm consistently. I must say, it sure _flows_ quite well; I'm pleased with it. Still not back to my old typing speeds, but that's okay; I can still type pretty well. I've stopped practicing my typing specifically, and I "just type" whatever I need now which probably accounts for my lack of progress in recent weeks, but ~55 wpm is not too bad. It'll get faster with time I'm sure.

Anyway, what I really wanted to say was that I created a new "Programmer Variant". It's pretty similar to the one before, what with the numbers and symbols in a switched "shift state", or whatever you call it. But it's optimized for typing LaTeX. And it works QUITE well, I must say. I'm quite happy with it. Here it is, for anyone that's interested. Comments/suggestions welcome.

`+[({\*})]%-!
qwfpgjluy;&$= Bcksp
arstdhneio' Return
zxcvbkm,./ Shift

...and...

~1234567890_#
QWFPGJLUY:^@|
ARSTDHNEIO"
ZXCVBKM<>?

As you can see, I've placed the {}, (), and [] on the same fingers of alternate hands, and also the +-. It feels pretty natural while typing. You might also wonder about the placement of the backslash on the top row. Well, if you've typed much LaTeX before, you know it's a pretty common key. Placing it under the index finger of the left hand feels pretty natural. The only thing I'm not sure about is the placement of the backslash under the index finger of the right or left hand. I may swap them just to get a feel for how the other way works. That is, to swap the * and \.

Hi cthunter01,

thank you for sharing your improved layout.

Since you asked for feedback, here is mine.

I think you should specify your typing pattern. Is it this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Touch_typing.svg ? You know, some people prefer for example this instead: http://www.freebusinesssoftware.org/scr … .480px.jpg , and that would break your design goal of positioning brackets on same fingers of opposite hand.

You know what? I've been thinking about a Programmer layout and I would have placed the brackets in a similar fashion, albeit I would have put the closing ones on the left side. This is counterintuitive, but in all programming languages I've been using, closing brackets are more likely to be followed by either Enter or ;.

For a more generic layout for programmers - if that wouldn't hurt Latex, which I don't know anything about - I would put = (a very common symbol) under a finger other than the pinky, for instance by swapping it with +. Moreover, the /* sequence (the multiline comment in C-like languages, which are mainstream today) seems a bit straining (swapping \ and * as you have suggested would fix this).

Did you consider moving : and ;? In all languages I've been using, they are almost always followed or preceded by Enter, and unless you are using a very smart editor, you'll have to hit them with the same pinky.

Cheers.

Hi cthunter01,

thanks for answering.

OTOH, maybe I just overestimated the frequency of multi-line comments. Indeed they are used mostly to generate documentation with Javadoc-like tools, and it could be that documentation comments are frequently generated by your editor of choice anyway. However, if you think that swapping them would not hurt the layout, than doing so could be useful.

Indeed, we should evaluate the impact with some data at hand...

Yes, ;-Return is a way bigger issue. I wouldn't change such comfortable positions for brackets though. You never know what brackets a language uses the most, and how it mixes them (Erlang comes to mind). I have to say that I would very much kick Q out of where it is, but then the layout would not be Colemak anymore, would it? What about placing ; and : where 1 is (thus shifting numbers one column to the right), like this:

Unshifted:

`;[({*\})]%-!

Shifted:

~:1234567890_

(Of course, you'll have to place + and # somewhere else)

Off-topic: Have you ever tried the alternative typing pattern? I used the one you are using now and found that it was a bit uncomfortable on my left index. Now I type with the alternative one, but pressing 2 with my ring finger instead of my pinky.

Cheers

Enter should be hit with the right-hand thumb in my opinion (I use the Caps-Extend for that). This solves the ;/:-Enter digraph issue.

At this point it's getting harder to optimize. For the most part, things seem to be in pretty convenient places. I can swap the semicolon and percent sign without too much harm, but having the % in a convenient place helps a lot with LaTeX, since it's the comment delimiter. Have you tried this layout to see how it feels? That's why I was asking how easy it would be for you to change layouts. It's possible that what doesn't LOOK too convenient, may be just fine in practice. Right now the ; is a bit of a stretch, I'll admit, but that comes from having been using it for a few days now. I'd like it to be in a slightly easier to reach location on the left hand, so swapping it with % could help with that.

I'll try it and see where it gets me.