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    altGr or stretch??

    • Started by innovine
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    24-Feb-2011 09:22:46#1 altGr or stretch??

    As a programmer, I am very interested in rearranging the symbols, but I'm unsure of what kinds of metrics to use when laying them out. I have a Typematrix keyboard, if it makes a difference.. any advice on deciding how and where to place some symbols would be welcome! Is it preferable to use altGr or a modifier key and the home row, or to stretch to the number row? I have pain in the back of my right hand, so anything which reduces stress there is preferred. The stretch to the number row is tough, but I imagine that tucking my thumb under my hand to get to a modifier may cause more problems in the long run.

    Last edited by innovine (24-Feb-2011 09:23:11)
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    24-Feb-2011 10:10:43#2 Re: altGr or stretch??

    Have a look here for my initial version + discussion, and here for my current version. I cannot recommend it enough.

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    24-Feb-2011 10:30:05#3 Re: altGr or stretch??

    Thanks for the swift reply.
    If I understand correctly, you're using altGr on both sides? Are you doing this with the Typematrix, if so, I'd be very interested to hear exactly what layout you are using, and how it is working out for you. Myself, I do a lot of linux command line, bash scripts, vim editing, javascript, svg, html, makefiles and c++. I'm already enjoying a variant of the colemak vim layout. I'm starting to put together a corpus of code to analyze but if there's no reason to reinvent the wheel if you've already got an awesome typematrix layout :)

    Last edited by innovine (24-Feb-2011 10:30:23)
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    • From: Viken, Norway
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    24-Feb-2011 13:15:10#4 Re: altGr or stretch??

    What I do is a 'wide' ergonomic modification - see the topics on that on this forum if you're interested (for instance this one.

    In your case, the most obvious benefit to this would be easy access to the AltGr key. In particular, I find it really helpful when using laptops (where you may also collide with the touchpad a bit) and keyboards like the old IBM ones with that extremely long space bar. But there are other ergonomic benefits as well, as discussed elsewhere.

    Then again, I guess that doesn't help much if Typematrix is your only keyboard in use. :)

    Last edited by DreymaR (24-Feb-2011 13:16:02)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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    24-Feb-2011 14:48:50#5 Re: altGr or stretch??

    I am using the typematrix as much as I can, but I have my qwerty board for when I need to get some work done. I dont notice much confusion when switching as my brain, so far, seems to consider the colemak touchtyping to be a totally separate skill.

    I figured out how to remap the keyboard to use altgr, and already feel pretty bad about it, tucking my thumb under feels very much like using my phone, which I think has caused my hand trouble to worsen recently. I'm not quite sure what to do next, stretch to the numbers all the time, or find a different modifier. Your thoughts are very welcome indeed!

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    24-Feb-2011 15:57:22#6 Re: altGr or stretch??

    The Wide mod will help with exactly that 'tucking under' feeling - I was annoyed by that, too.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    24-Feb-2011 16:32:57#7 Re: altGr or stretch??

    Yes, I think it could help, but that basically puts the central Backspace and Enter keys of the Typematrix too far away from my right hand. It might be easier to set some other key as the modifier, but I'm not sure how to do that at present. xkb is confusing.

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    25-Feb-2011 09:39:08#8 Re: altGr or stretch??

    Like I said, I wouldn't go Wide on a TypeMatrix. On a run-of-the-mill keyboard it's great.

    xkb is confusing as hell!  :(  In Ubuntu at least, there's a setting though under System > Preferences > Keyboard > Layout > Options... > Key to choose 3rd level, where you could for instance set the right GUI/Win key as your 3rd level modifier very easily. Don't know if that would help any?

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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    25-Feb-2011 09:46:28#9 Re: altGr or stretch??

    you've already got an awesome typematrix layout

    I'm typing this on a TypeMatrix, but at work I use a Kinesis Advantage.

    If I understand correctly, you're using altGr on both sides?

    Yes, I've got two AltGr keys. You can't comfortably fit a programming layout without a shift accessor for each hand.

    I'm dedicating the Z and ?/ keys for AltGr, which I think not many people are willing to do. I would prefer to use thumb keys (like on the Kinesis) but that's not really possible with the TypeMatrix.

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    25-Feb-2011 11:46:05#10 Re: altGr or stretch??

    I managed to move the RALT key by editing /usr/share/X11/xkb/keycodes/xfree86  There is probably better ways to do it but thats ok for now. I've got the RALT placed to the right of o, and the main symbols I need on the left hand. Next up will be using my left thumb for LALT, which I think I prefer to the right thumb. I'll need to experiment a bit I guess until I find a good placement for these.

    Do you use vim, tomlu?

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    25-Feb-2011 13:17:44#11 Re: altGr or stretch??

    Do you use vim, tomlu?

    Sure do. I just use a modified version of Shai's Colemak mapping which works fine.

    On the TypeMatrix I've mapped the "Application" button to ESC, but it's reachable by thumb and as such is prime real estate so you may want to use that for your programming shift.

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