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Yet another Colemak experience thread

  • Started by erw
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  • From: Aalborg, Denmark
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Hi!

I'm a software engineering student from Denmark.

I started to learn QWERTY touch typing in the summer of 2006. In 2007 I sorted out the bad habit of occasionally looking at the keyboard by painting my keyboard completely white. For comfort, I bought a Microsoft NEK4000 but it's kinda tacky and I always ended up using a regular flat keyboard each time I tried to start using the NEK4000.

I had also been reading about alternative layouts but I was afraid of making myself even less able to use other people's computers now that I also used caps lock as control. But no more! (being afraid, that is). Two weeks ago, a friend at uni said he wanted to learn Dvorak. I said "Count me in!" and started reading about it. But Colemak caught my eye and one thing led to another and here I am. On that day, I measured my QWERTY speed to 58 WPM using the 2 minute test at hi-games.net (average of a few runs). I will continue to use that test in this thread.

For a week I was looking at making a Danish Colemak, but I didn't use it more than for typing "setxkbmap dk" to get back to my normal QWERTY. February 27th was the day I started really practicing, so I shall dub it Day 1 (seeing as this is more common than, say, Day 0 (Also, maybe 0 should be reserved for the first week of preparing to learn Colemak)). I plan to maintain my QWERTY skills, so for the time being, I'm doing "Colemak by night". And by "by night" I mean maybe just a half hour of ktouch and mixed typing each night.

On Day 3, I was happy to find my QWERTY at 60 WPM instead of going down the drain. Today, Day 5, is the first time I measured my Colemak speed. 14 WPM. And QWERTY is now at a hurting 64 WPM -- I guess I'm getting familiar with the process of typing fast for two minutes.

I'm thinking that maybe I should make some Danish Colemak exercises for ktouch because so far, I've only been writing English on Colemak. I also still need to figure out some stuff such as what to do about backspace since I already use caps lock for control. I'm also tempted by the idea of a wide layout because shift will be so easy to reach.

I'll return with progress later. Now, I'm off to bed.

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Day 7:
Colemak: 17 WPM (+3)
QWERTY: 62 WPM (-2)

Colemak for writing natural text is nice, but I feel so limited in bash and especially vim because apparently my brain/muscles uses calculated addresses instead of indirection.

I do
"I want to delete => press down my left hand's middle finger (QWERTY 'd')"
and not
"I want to delete => I should press the 'd' key => press the 'd' key on the current layout".

Even many program names are hardwired this way as well: svn, hg, cat, rm, ...

Edit: Named it back to Day 7 so there's room for calling the real Day 8 Day 8.

Last edited by erw (07-Mar-2011 00:35:45)
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Vi(m) worked remarkably ok for me, but I had a hell of a time with mutt initially. :-)

Just give it some time, your fingers will get used to it.

FWIW, I have not remapped any program's keys, partly because I use vi on hundreds of machines at work.

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I was concerned about this with Dvorak.  But it wasn't that much of an issue in the end. 

I have a bit of trouble still with the q and the colon, which is in a bit of a horrid place in Dvorak.  But should be fine with Colemak.


I now think in shortcuts as in d for delete and my fingers just follow.  I didn't realise how many commands were burnt into my brain.  You'll still use them. 

It might be worth incorporating commands and switches into your training exercises.

--
Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

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It seems that you are practicing slowly and sill using your QWERTY. It wonder if you plan to preserve your qwerty speed, but it would be nice to see if it is possible to maintain your original speed, and reach the same speed in Colemak. I think Rayn tried this before and he post somewhere that he has preserved both speeds together (121WPM), but when I asked him by email he said that honestly he does not care about qwerty any more and he can probably type around 50wpm, and I would like to see if some body can do it, while progressing with colemak. I can  touch type at 19 WPM for qwerty, but it would be faster if I looked at the keyboard and I do not want to mess my Colemak speed now after 53 days of changing by doing this test , but it would be nice if you can give it a try and tell us if it is really possible especially that your Colemak speed is still slow

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ghen said:

Vi(m) worked remarkably ok for me, but I had a hell of a time with mutt initially. :-)

Just give it some time, your fingers will get used to it.

FWIW, I have not remapped any program's keys, partly because I use vi on hundreds of machines at work.

Yeah, I know that problem. My QWERTY-vimrc is huge (not to mention all my custom filetype plugins), so managing many servers is tough for me even on QWERTY!


pinkyache said:

I was concerned about this with Dvorak.  But it wasn't that much of an issue in the end. 

I have a bit of trouble still with the q and the colon, which is in a bit of a horrid place in Dvorak.  But should be fine with Colemak.


I now think in shortcuts as in d for delete and my fingers just follow.  I didn't realise how many commands were burnt into my brain.  You'll still use them. 

It might be worth incorporating commands and switches into your training exercises.

Good idea, I think I'll make a ktouch lesson based on my bash_history. (I wonder if there are any typing tutor programs that can handle control shortcuts so I can practice the new readline shortcuts.)


nimbostratue said:

It seems that you are practicing slowly and sill using your QWERTY. It wonder if you plan to preserve your qwerty speed, but it would be nice to see if it is possible to maintain your original speed, and reach the same speed in Colemak. I think Rayn tried this before and he post somewhere that he has preserved both speeds together (121WPM), but when I asked him by email he said that honestly he does not care about qwerty any more and he can probably type around 50wpm, and I would like to see if some body can do it, while progressing with colemak. I can  touch type at 19 WPM for qwerty, but it would be faster if I looked at the keyboard and I do not want to mess my Colemak speed now after 53 days of changing by doing this test , but it would be nice if you can give it a try and tell us if it is really possible especially that your Colemak speed is still slow

Yes I am. Today, I swapped the keys on my desktop computer at home around to Colemak, so I can use it without touch typing once in a while, and I practiced more today than I've done the other days. Today's results...

Day 8
Colemak: 17 WPM (+0)
QWERTY: 64 WPM (+2)

...don't show it at all, but Colemak feels easier now, and QWERTY harder. I'm afraid my brain can't keep the two layouts separate after all :-/  Especially Colemak R vs QWERTY S is problematic as I mentioned in another thread. I can't help but to think that had Colemak used ASRT instead of ASRT, it would have been much easier to preserve QWERTY skills. But on the other hand, I can feel that ARST makes sense when typing.

I'll stick with QWERTY at uni tomorrow.

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Maybe you should stick with Qwerty and switch to Colemak only when you have at least 1 month to use Colemak full time.

Maintaining both layouts will put heavy strain and confusion to your brain and your hands.

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Tony_VN said:

Maybe you should stick with Qwerty and switch to Colemak only when you have at least 1 month to use Colemak full time.

Maintaining both layouts will put heavy strain and confusion to your brain and your hands.

I do have time now, in fact, it might even be a good time now. I'd just like to not lose my qwerty speed. I think losing it (as a number of threads in here talk about) will not really encourage people to learn Colemak so I'd like to contribute an "I did't lose my qwerty speed" thread if possible (also, I'd just like to not lose it).

I might switch to full time Colemak soon so I can learn it faster and then use the recommendation from http://www.ryanheise.com/colemak/ to type a bit of qwerty in the morning.

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erw said:

Day 7:
Colemak: 17 WPM (+3)
QWERTY: 62 WPM (-2)

Colemak for writing natural text is nice, but I feel so limited in bash and especially vim because apparently my brain/muscles uses calculated addresses instead of indirection.

I do
"I want to delete => press down my left hand's middle finger (QWERTY 'd')"
and not
"I want to delete => I should press the 'd' key => press the 'd' key on the current layout".

It's the same learning path as for "natural text", where you unlearned

"I want to type 'the' => move my left index north-east, move my right index west, move my left middle north"

in order to learn

"I want to type 'the' => I should press 't', 'h', 'e' in the current layout".

There is no difference between this and learning to type Vim commands in Colemak.   If you do adopt a more Colemak-friendly vim mapping scheme (I didn't because it would be too painful to replicate it everywhere I ssh to), it would be to save finger moving effort, not to hold on to any pre-existent finger memory.

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@ds26gte: True, but somehow natural words are a bit easier to relearn :-)

Today, I did the regular ktouch training and made some Danish lessons as well. I also moved my keycaps back to qwerty for all the reasons I had actually read before (https://colemak.com/Learn#Tips_for_learning), forgotten and then realized again!

I've made a new plan:
1) qwerty in the morning before I go to uni
2) qwerty at uni (until I pick up more colemak speed)
3) colemak at home in the whole evening/night (not just half an hour)

Day 10:
Colemak: 24 WPM (+7)

EDIT: And my qwerty speed the next morning as I didn't want to switch back and measure it last night: 58 WPM (-6)

Last edited by erw (09-Mar-2011 07:42:54)
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Day 12: 24 WPM (+0)

I guess it won't go higher until I've covered the top row lessons in ktouch (I only advance to the next level when I can sustain 120 chars per minute in the current level -- I'm currently at the first top row level, P and L).

EDIT: Qwerty: 62 WPM (+4), but I make more errors than before (which have to be corrected as part of the hi-games test -- so it seems my qwerty speed is still fine).

Last edited by erw (11-Mar-2011 11:04:51)
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ds26gte said:

"I want to type 'the' => I should press 't', 'h', 'e' in the current layout".

Actually, this is still not what I'm learning. I'm just learning another hardwired way to type "the". Without that, typing requires too much mental activity to think about the content.

Day 16: 28 WPM (+4)

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My last three days have been Colemak only. So much for planning -- but I've gotten to the point where qwerty doesn't seem that important anymore, even though I'm only halfway to my original qwerty speed.

Day 18: 33 WPM (+5)

I still have to cover G, J, Y and K in ktouch.

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Great progress. You can keep the speed day by day and show it in a graph, it is much appreciated.

My Qwerty is also 60wpm and after 3 weeks I also get to half speed 30wpm, then after 90 days my Colemak speed reached my Qwerty speed.

Last edited by Tony_VN (17-Mar-2011 04:05:38)
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Thanks -- and yeah, I will get around to that :-)

I also have a few more measurements than I post here that I can include. But for now:

Day 19: 34 WPM (+1)

I wish I had more time to practice!

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Day 21: 43 WPM (+9)

Dunno how that just happened  O_O

colemak_prog.png


Btw, today I had some friends over for dinner and I had again swapped my keycaps to Colemak to see their reactions. One of them started searching for some music on my computer and when he was typing he could see something was wrong but it took a moment for him to realize what is was :-) They preferred typing qwerty on the colemak keycaps but not being complete touch typers they were a bit frustrated. They still found the idea of alternative layouts interesting, though.

Returning to my experiences, replication typing (as in ktouch and hi-games.net) is much easier than typing what I'm thinking (e.g., this post). Also, while Colemak is very smooth for English, it feels kinda clunky for Danish, since we have many same finger digraphs on Colemak ("gt" and "dt" are common word endings and "kl" and "kn" appear often).

My errors are a great deal of left-over qwerty muscle memory, especially 's' and 'n' (resulting in 'r' and 'k', resp.). My main "native" Colemak error is mixing up 'i' and 'o'.

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I guess I know what has happened, it is because your hand were tired the days before and you let them rest for a while. When I started learning, I used to type intensively for one day, and when I wake up the other day, I would find my speed has increased by 5 WPM or so.

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Today's my 29th day and here's last week's progress:

colemak_prog02.png

Now, I'm not expecting it to continue rising linearly but I might as well enjoy it while it does :-)

I also started using typeracer.com -- it's cool!

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Have you tried hi-games.net? Post your profile link if you have done it. Most of us are there.

Sean Wrona, the world typing champion, also competes at hi-games.net and now are 1st in all races.

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Tony_VN said:

Have you tried hi-games.net? Post your profile link if you have done it. Most of us are there.

Yeah, that's what I use for the graph :-)

I'm here: http://hi-games.net/profile/4610 but it seems to only save your hiscores for replay and mine are done on qwerty. Maybe I should just use the five minute one for Colemak.

On typeracer, I'm erw_learning_colemak.

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You could easily create a new account for Colemak typing only.

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I could, but I'll just use the 5-minute one. That's better than the 2 x 2 minutes I did before anyway, so I'll also use it for the graph from now on.

Tonight's run was a very viscous 47 WPM. It can be found at http://hi-games.net/typing-test,300/watch?u=4610 until I make a better score :-)

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I'm stoked.

typeracer01.png

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It feels like I'm still improving on typeracer, but kind of stagnating on hi-games.. has anyone else experienced this?

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Typeracer got different texts with different time lengths. Easy short texts give you a better speed and feelings of improvement. Hi-games got fixed time length, so your feelings cannot be mislead.

The faster you type, the harder you can improve. The typing speed is a log curve.

1pm increase is what I expect now after 3 weeks.

Last edited by Tony_VN (11-Apr-2011 11:59:13)
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