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    High Speed Typer with Unusual Form?

    • Started by PherricOxide
    • 11 Replies:
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    • Registered: 11-Aug-2011
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    I'm a software developer who's been a QWERTY user for a decade (in my twenties). I never learned to type properly, but I used to be extremely active in chat rooms. I even ended up in a long distant relationship for a couple of years, combined with my school, work, and entertainment already revolving around a computer, it meant spending a lot of time at the keyboard. Currently, I can maintain 75-80 WPM with peaks of 90+ WPM on common words, around 97% accuracy. However, this seems to be the limit of how fast my hands will move comfortably with my unusual typing form.

    For the majority of my everyday activities this is fast enough, but for writing and chatting I'd like to increase my typing speed and comfort, so I started exploring alternate keyboard layouts. I'm also doing it just because I found it interesting and felt like giving my brain something challenging to do. In doing this, I've started to analyze the way I naturally type.

    Now the shocker: I manage those high speeds almost solely with my index fingers and a huge amount of movement.


    Details on a QWERTY keyboard,

    Natural left hand resting position: asdf
    Natural right hand resting position: kl; and my pinkie rests on SHIFT (I always use the right shift and enter a lot)

    Keys typed with each finger (sometimes),
    Left pinkie: A Q Z
    Left Ring: W
    Left Middle Finger: D E
    All other left hand keys: Index finger

    Right hand: Nearly 100% index finger except for some punctuation



    Basically, I can type two fingered with my eyes closed near 70WPM, with some other fingers thrown in every now and then for spice and finger rolls peaking it up another 10-20WPM. I believe this evolved from hunt and peck typing, with some unusual speed possibly because of my long fingers (I'm 6' 2" with long skinny fingers that feel cramped when using the "proper" form).


    Now for the discussion questions,

    1. Should I learn to properly touch type? I see all these people practicing for decades and only getting up to 40-60WPM and then hitting what seems to be an upper limit for them. I'm afraid that when I try to properly touch type, my speed isn't going to recover for years (if at all). Attempting to touch type with the proper form instantly drops my typing speed over 40WPM and requires a lot more concentration.

    2. What determines the upper typing limit of a person? Is it a physical or mental limit? Can a new keyboard layout or even typing form really help much?

    3. Should I try to teach myself to touch type properly on Coleman or DVORAK, and leave my QWERTY two fingered insanity alone? This what I've been doing at the moment with interesting results. Instead of dropping QWERTY speed like many people have happen when they learn a new layout, my QWERTY speed has been rock steady as my DVORAK speed as slowly increased to about 30WPM in a little over a week using proper touch typing. I believe I may be an interesting case, since instead of rewiring muscle memories to new keys, I'm creating entirely new muscle memories and am able to revert back to my QWERTY set when need be.

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    • From: Sofia, Bulgaria
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    On your first question I would 100% advice you to learn proper touch typing. It will increase your speed. I used my own typing technique for a long time and was writing with about 55 wpm or so. Then I decided to learn touch typing (that was still with Qwerty). I took just a few lessons, and since I'm not all that active chatter I raised my speed just to about 60 (and was continuing raising). But after I started type more intensively and switched to Colemak, now I'm writing steadily with 75 wpm for long texts and 85 or so for short (like chat). Often going above 90s.
    Anyway, definitely go for touch typing. That's even more important than the layout you're using in my opinion. As for the time it will take you to reach your old speed, it shouldn't be a lot if you go cold turkey, and stop using your non-standard technique, which I advice you to do if possible. But again, either way - it's worth it to learn. If for nothing else - for the comfort you'll feel.

    2. I am not 100% sure on what determines the speed limit of a person, but I think everybody reaches a point, after which you most of the times can still improve, but it takes a lot of training, and it's veery slow progress. The technique is important. Just hit three buttons with your index and then hit them with three different fingers. Which is faster? That being said, there are alternative non-classical techniques, but I advice you to go for the classic, and after that if you want, develop your own.
    The layout sometimes help the speed, but if you've reached your speed limit with one layout, that's more or less the limit you'll have with the other. The difference is in the stress in the hands and the comfort.

    3. I think you're right with the muscle memory. So if your question is which to chose - Colemak or Dvorak, well this is a Colemak forum and I suppose most of the people have made their choice here and will advice you the same. Dvorak is not bad at all, and in some cases better than Colemak but you've probably read the statistics. I wouldn't tell you which to chose. If it wasn't for the shortcuts I don't know which one I would have chosen. I rely veery heavily on shortcuts and Dvorak is just not very friendly on that matter.

    PS: The key for good progress and satisfying result is to use exclusively the layout you're learning once you get to a decent speed to do your daily job and as a lot of people in here can tell you - focus on accuracy. The speed comes. Once in the high speeds of typing every mistake costs a ton, so accurate typing is essential if you want to take out the most.

    Last edited by pafkata90 (11-Aug-2011 04:44:43)
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    1. You should learn touch typing techniques, since it will distribute typing workload more to other fingers, less for your index fingers.
    Your speed will increase after a month of practising. It is similar to learning a new keyboard layout, such as Colemak or Dvorak. You should learn Colemak along with that touch typing learning, to save time.

    2. Every people has his/her own limits about typing, based on finger strengths, lengths and nerve reaction time. With proper typing technique and better layout it can increase.
    From Qwerty to Colemak I can increase my average speed to 4wpm. From non-proper to proper typing techniques without looking at the keyboards, I guess 10-20 wpm increase.

    3. After you reach 30wpm with Colemak/Dvorak, you will want to stay with it and never come back to Qwerty. The fear is still there, but the more you get used to new layout, the less afraid you will be.
    Like you, I intend to keep Qwerty skills along with Colemak skills. But when I reached 30wpm in Colemak I started to use Colemak full time and totally dropped Qwerty.
    It's good that you switch at the moment you don't have too many typing work, otherwise you will tend to come back to Qwerty and confuse your fingers.

    Good luck!

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    • Registered: 24-Feb-2011
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    I think you should make the switch. Just testing out colemak for a few days should give you a feel for what its like, and it is a nice feeling!! 

    I switched from incorrect qwerty mostly-touch-typing to colemak by testing colemak for an hour in the evenings, and after a few weeks I made the full time switch at work. Thankfully they are understanding and put up with my initial slowness. After a couple of months I outperformed the guy sitting next to me, so I am very pleased :)

    Another thing that really got me motivated to make the change was to purchase a new keyboard. I settled on the typematrix (http://typematrix.com) and really like it, but there are plenty of other types too. I got the blank version, so not only is there no text on any of the buttons, anyone trying to use it gets totally lost as its not qwerty either hehehe.

    One often overlooked issue though is that software developers are generally using a LOT more symbols than regular english, but this is not really reflected in the usual corpus used when creating layouts (correct me if Im wrong). This tends to put the symbols around the edges of layouts, and often common combos like ); are not considered. I placed the common symbols for my languages in easy to reach places, on the same keys as the common letters, just with a thumb key modifier. Works really nice, the greatest tip I can give is to map the arrow keys to wsad or nuei (in colemak), saves having to move your hand! I love this!

    See also the colemak for vim editor, if you use that.

    Anyway, in summary, check out colemak, its not too hard to learn, and I at least get a little reward and sense of satisfaction each time I roll out a high speed combo. Great stuff!

    Last edited by innovine (17-Aug-2011 19:23:51)
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    I'm still relatively new to touch typing (1 year and a half) with Dvorak (working as a programmer.)  I found (and sometimes am still finding) the fingering quite tough.  I occasionally peak around 75wpm, but I am not overly consistent.  At first I thought I was torturing my fingers in the most unnatural way!  So if I was typing around 70 - 80wpm consistently - without thinking about it, and without pain - I'd be pretty happy.

    I am hoping my touch typing will just get better in time.  It has helped me and I am making slow progress.  Sometimes I feel I am less productive than I used to be, or rather I should be far more productive now.  I think I was a little more innovative as a programmer when I was a hunt and peck typist - the shortcuts that I was forced to take were good for my work!

    I personally would be happy with your speed.  I would concentrate instead on mastering/customising a text editor, and make other productivity gains.  Losing an hour of my day to exercise - would probably benefit my work, body and brain more!

    I value comfort far more than speed - who cares about an extra 10wpm?  I also think text input has been a sorely neglected part of the desktop operating systems for so long that something has got to change.  Smart predictive text and or macros - could help the slowest of typists.  If the tablet catches on - and it looks like it will - they'll have to address text input, and with any luck it will be far better than an age old outdated array of switches and/or a few swapped keys.

    Don't let me put you off though!

    Last edited by pinkyache (22-Aug-2011 22:49:44)

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    Well here's an update nearly 3 weeks later.

    I decided to learn DVORAK using the proper touch typing technique and stick with my 2 fingered QWERTY method. I'm trying to stay fluent in both, at least until my DVORAK speed get up to the same as QWERTY. I've got the windows keyboard shortcuts set up to switch back and forth quickly. For browsing the web (passwords, shortcuts, googling) I tend to leave it on QWERTY, as well as for programming as speed isn't an issue and not having to think about how to type what I want is advantageous.

    How is the plan going? Well, my QWERTY skills have been doing odd things. I can type normally composing my own thoughts on QWERTY just as fast I always could, but I find it somewhat difficult to take typing tests with it now. I'm unsure if this is because I'm thinking too hard about what I'm typing (this has always happened, if I tried to observe my hands in QWERTY I'd suddenly make all sorts of mistakes and not know where the keys were, versus just typing without really thinking about it) or for some reason my brain just automatically switches to DVORAK when I try typing programs and tests since I've been doing that so much lately. Either way, I'm still able to clock 75WPM+ after enough tries that I start thinking in QWERTY again. I'd say there hasn't been any serious loss of speed or typing ability.

    DVORAK with proper typing I made steady progress up to 50-60WPM. At that point, it's leveled off and I seem to have hit a temporary barrier. Part of this might be since I haven't done much typing lately. I will admit that touch typing with the proper form feels more comfortable. It also seems like I'm typing slower than I really am, with less hand movement from both proper form and from DVORAK. In theory, my current DVORAK speed should be fast enough that I can use it easily, but I find that it takes more concentration and thinking to use DVORAK still, making it often frustrating and causing me to switch to QWERTY when I want to type something quickly. At the moment I'm okay with my speed, what I really want is my QWERTY ability to type without thinking, which is harder to measure than words per minute. I'm not really sure how long it will take to regain that.

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    I have the same experience as you. I call this custom typing-style "accelerated multi-finger hunt-and-peck".

    I peck at 80 WPM on QWERTY with all my fingers, though with sharply-declining rates in order from my index to my pinky.

    A year ago, I learned touch-typing together with Dvorak. For a good while I was convinced I'd forgotten QWERTY. But later due to circumstances I started typing on QWERTY-'boards, and rediscovered my skill: it's like riding a bicycle!

    I spent a couple of months with Dvorak, but eventually stopped because I found it uncomfortable and strainful. And I only ever achieved 60 WPM.

    QWERTY hunt-and-peck gives me no discomfort at all. I believe it's in-fact far more ergonomic, due to requiring large sweeping hand-movements rather than the "microtwitches" of touch-typing.


    Do you know what's surprising? The QWERTY-layout is very good for multi-finger hunt-and-peck! Optimised layouts like Dvorak would be much harder to use since digraphs and the like are put right next to each other: I believe that for maximum comfort there needs to be some space between each key that you press in succession. CarpalX' TNWMLC-layout, specially-designed to suck hard for touch-typing, might ironically enough be the ultimate layout for multi-finger hunt-and-peck.

    Last edited by cksn4 (21-Oct-2011 16:37:20)
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    I really like that: 'multi finger hunt and peck'.  My girlfriend flies with her six finger partially sight read hunt and peck.  I used to be pretty fast myself - but annoyingly never timed myself.  I found it really frustrating moving over to touch typing with the speed loss.

    Given hours of stupendous typing, with time and practice you do regain your old speeds - and it starts to feel more natural.  My touch typing doesn't feel as half as rigid as it once did.

    It has been a bit of a long climb for me to get to this point.   But don't forget how much time you invested in perfecting multi-fingered hunt and peck!  If I had started out with touch typing though, I think I'd have found it much more comfortable much sooner.

    This last week I was forced to use a computer without Dvorak, and my Qwerty talent has totally fallen by the wayside.  I quickly descend into quite a horrible and painful place.

    I get where you are coming from regarding pain.  I never had pain or stiffness in my fingers or hand with hunt and peck.  But I did have more trouble with my upper body.

    Surely hunt and peck would still lend well to hand alternation - I've always thought that Dvorak would be a better layout for hunt and peckers, for a start it's easier to learn the layout - i.e. less hunting.

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    I think it's strange that people decide to learn Dvorak in this day and age. Are they so enamoured with the concept of hand alternation? For I think there's enough evidence by now that Colemak is "just as good" within a few percent uncertainty. And then it comes down to Colemak being much easier to learn and use for someone who's used to QWERTY. You can even learn it one hand at a time (using Tarmak)!

    Maybe it's social inertia. But then, that's what's keeping people from leaving QWERTY. But then, that's probably what's keeping me from trying out the myriad other layouts people want to sell (Workman, anyone?). Hmmm.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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    @dreymar,  If Colemak had been as ubiquitous as Dvorak - I'd have probably picked that up.  Though I'm glad I didn't. I only have anecdotal evidence as support for Colemak right now - as I'm missing the science bit behind the layout.  You could argue that Dvorak also stands on thin ground - but at least it's tried and tested.  I still think the keyboard is the major problem and challenge to overcome - not so much the layout.

    Last edited by pinkyache (27-Oct-2011 16:04:22)

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    Indeed I would argue that the ground below Dvorak isn't significantly more stable! August had some proper research but no computers to help him which evens out the field. And Colemak is tried and tested - where have you been the last five years? ;)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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    My advice is this! If you feel there is a need to go faster with your current typing speed and if you feel going for proper touch typing will further increase your speed, go for it. Make sure you don’t have any writing assignments for the first two weeks since it will take time getting used to.Does anyone know which is the most preferred landing page software in market?

    Last edited by javin (09-Mar-2012 15:47:48)
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