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Should I learn this? Some of my thoughts...Some advise please.

  • Started by Culinia
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  • Registered: 07-Oct-2010
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Hey pinkyache, thanks!

I can sustain a consistent 90wpm+ on the 1 min & 30 second tests, the 2 minute one is a bit difficult, mostly 85wpm+ and the 5 minute one, the most difficult, 80wpm+. I think we all have days like that when we cannot type at our best when e.g. we want to and then later pick it up :) When that happens during one of my short practice sessions, I tend to schedule it later so that I do not lose morale.

Interesting, although I might be slightly biased since, if you have not already seen my colemak keyboard, I starting to learn touch typing (qwerty) on that mechanical keyboard before I learned colemak. So I am not sure why you experience the slow down on the board. I can only draw comparison between mechanical and rubber domes in my case. The domes in my university library at least are tedious, and I can only achieve a 70+wpm with them. I think my mechanical keyboard has a lot to do with this, because I am used to the feeling and light touch to apply letters and even the modifiers with, on the rubber dome for instance I find that I do not capitalize correctly, probably due to the absence of stabilizers in the keyboard and what I feel is a higher force needed to actuate the key. The rubber domes on my laptop that I am typing this one, and achieved a 92wpm 1 minute test on, suggests to me knowing-your-keyboard i.e. typing consistently on one keyboard helps greatly with aiming to achieve a high typing speed.

I am intrigued by what you describe with slightly different fingering style.' I am not entirely sure what you mean by that, perhaps you can give an example? When I transitioned to colemak, I simply inherited the same fingering style, that is home-row on the T + N as opposed to the F + J, middle left finger type fsc and the same typing zones found on qwerty transitioned to colemak, so I am not entirely sure what you mean?

I understand what you mean about numbers or punctuation marks can throw you off, the hi-games courtroom quotes/jokes where you type alot of Q: & ; & : & " & ' symbols a lot of times, slows me down a lot, say about 5-10wpm. I'm afraid the only option for us is to practice them alot, I simply cannot be bothered lol, or to not really be worried about it and set your record at another text.

I would like to mention however it is entirely possible to recover from a mistake. Just now when I did a typing test for 1 minute I made a mistake, took a bit of time to correct (spell: tion as ntio) the trick is to not let it bother you and to press on, still got 90wpm+, same thing happens with other tests each day :)
I think typing at higher speeds than you are used to does require a lot of concentration. I am only just beginning to feel that it is getting easier as it becomes more natural to type at higher speeds.

As previously mentioned, I don't think my fingering style has changed (if that's what I think it is you mean), it's just becoming more conscious of what to type next and to break down bigger words into smaller chunks (which I call combinations) in which you can naturally type faster. If you want to look for real life examples of this, you can look at my 90wpm 2 min replay on hi-games which I think illustrates this. Clear examples can be found in the following words: wanted violent another defined uncertainty dimple - where you can see a pause break between segments of the word. I type like this on all words but in those words it is the most obvious, possibly because I have not typed the aforementioned words too often so it takes slightly longer for me to type it/think where the next combination is coming from.

Another factor to consider is the 'left hand situation' It occurred to me that the staggered grid system of the keyboard had a detrimental on my left hand. For me at least I found it uncomfortable and to some extent I still do typing anything on the left side of the keyboard. I think the unsymmetrical style of the keyboard could be blamed for this (why it is still like this from the typewriting days who knows, well we could all hypothesize), why I don't think it feels 'quite right'. One way to alleviate the problem at least in my case is to raise my fingers slightly on my left hand. The right hand can happily stay on the home row and still feel comfortable keying from it's relatively idle state.

In terms of changing my life for the better, the whole colemak/mechanical keyboard experience has made me more interested in keyboards generally, particularly mechanical keyboards so I have gained a new hobby, LOL. Plus the added satisfaction when typing *you* are the only one in class/public/workspace in most occasions that can, 1) Not only type properly but 2) Type in another keyboard layout which other people will not know (unless the legends has been prescribed colemak like on my desktop computer's keyboard).

Hope all that answered your questions. By the way, what mechanical keyboard have you got? I would hazard a guess to IBM Model M/Unicomp Customizer by the use of 'old school.'

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What I meant by fingering, wasn't the one-to-one key-finger correspondence, rather my physical approach to the keyboard, in how I strike the keys.

My mechanical is a Dell AT102W with the UK layout with black alps switches.  I thought it might be wise to try a mechanical before parting with a lot of money.  I'm quite jealous of your Filco - that looks like a good investment.

I really didn't like the Dell when I first got it, but it's growing on me.  It seems you have to come down on the keys vertically - they aren't that forgiving.  At first they felt as if they needed quite a bit of pressure - but I've learnt not to bottom them out.

However since having the keyboard I have grown lighter in touch.  I used to use a gentle stroke before I learnt how to touch type, and that for me has been the hardest thing to regain.

It's difficult to explain - but because the Dell is somewhat odd,  I think it means I hold my hands differently.  And 'I think' that this somehow is helping my typing. Maybe there are positive side affects to using a mechanical keyboard.

One thing I remember when I first started to touch type - was that suddenly I was aware of my keyboard and how it felt - and it felt pretty bad.  It was a compaq rubber dome - and I'd always enjoyed typing on it before then.  I ordered another rubber dome - thinking it might help me.  But that felt like it required quite a bit of pressure.  I hated it too, but got used to it.  You are right, we do get used to our own keyboards.

I find it's quite easy to apply too much pressure to rubber domes.  I used to enjoy using the modifiers on the keyboard.  Now I hate them.  I have recently found a love for sticky keys, which make it a bit better for the fingers.

It was very cold at the flat when I started to learn to touch type, and I was quite uncomfortable at the time, so I learnt how to touch type lying down, with the keyboard on my upper legs, under a blanket.  Actually that was pretty comfortable!  At the time, I figured that sitting down was where humans were going wrong.

I won't bore you with my story, but I've suffered a lot with computer related stress - hence sitting wasn't possible at the time, and I was learning Dvorak and touch typing out of desperation more than anything.  What it did mean was that I learnt how to touch type with my hands quite flat on the keyboard.  That I later read was a bad idea.

In time I tried to break this habit by sitting and floating my hands instead.  Which I do now.  Though I think this puts some pressure on the upper body.

Either way, in some ways - I have leart to type in two different styles.

All along my aim has been to just use a computer in comfort -  I would have been happy at first with 40wpm, but that number just keeps going up. Any speed boost is a plus.

My body is pretty sensitive so even sight modifications in hand posture I can feel.  I don't think I've discovered the perfect keying style just yet.

Regarding the left hand - Dvorak really helps there.  I notice the alien twist in the wrist caused by the staggered layout - but luckily haven't suffered too much as Dvorak is pretty easy on the left - you mainly use just the home row there.  Having said that Dvorak puts pressure on the right,  I wonder sometimes that the use of the right hand side of the right hand might somehow cause some pain in the neck via pinky strain.

In my books 'sustained' means using a keyboard for ten minutes or more a go.  I type long passages for practice.  I'd probably be better to just practice with IM, as I don't copy text for a living!

--
Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

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pinkyache said:

  I'm quite jealous of your Filco - that looks like a good investment.

hehe :) It's brilliant isn't it. I am really glad (not to rub in the salt purposely, lol sorry) that I bought 2 sets of keycaps like this. Since it seems with the new round 4, unfortunately colemak uptake is slow (don't think even that one is being produced)! I would thoroughly recommend a mech. keyboard to anyone that can type.

Hmm...well I haven't experienced the Dell AT102W or even any ALPS swtiches and going by reviews I've watched on youtube, I just have to say, I think there are much better switches out there - so if you do have the opportunity do experiment with others :)

haha, I sure know what you mean about the disappointment when typing on a rubber dome keyboard after coming from a mechanical one that's for sure! And don't worry, I found your 'story' interesting, after all -- that's what I documented at first in this very thread :) I have to confess, when on my laptop in the front room on the couch I do type lying down!

I was wondering, do you alternate between the two different styles since (I think) you find them uncomfortable or do you just stick to one? Good luck on finding your most comfortable position, luckily I haven't had that problem and now that I think of it, I think I type in different styles depending on how I am sitting at the time. I have a nasty habit of sitting with the chair swung back, so I type resting my (bit between elbow and wrist) on the desk, another style when I sit properly I type how you describe - hands floating and when my shoulders hurt I just put them down and alternate between them. I have not found an overall solution, although I of course feel sorry for your uncomfort on the computer - I probably need not tell you how I think how awful it would be etc. :( and I only hope that you find comfort in due course and to reach your higher speed goal -- good luck in that!

That's interesting, I didn't bother learning Dvorak, in fact I would have if I had not found Colemak but I did hear that it was more right-hand orientated, which is quite funny, because I felt when I typed QWERTY (I still can to some extent: 30wpm) it was more left hand orientated.

In the future I will try and modify my keyboard to a symmetrical stagger - like they have done in the GH forums but I will need to work on my soldering skills first, lol. I think that would help tremendously no matter what keyboard layout anyone uses!

Yes good idea for practising on the things that you will type. I think practising typing has become at least for me more of a hobby if you can call it that.

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I fully agreed with you that mechanical keyboards are wonderful and it changes your typing experience forever. You simply cannot come back to Dell, HP, IBM or Logitech rubber domes.

For Colemak users, I think a mechanical keyboard is an excellent investment. It is such a pleasure to type Colemak on these keyboards.

From the day I have the Filco with brown switches I enjoy typing almost too much. Typing has now become a pleasure, a massage experience for my fingers.

For Colemak typists, I think blue and brown switches are very good to start with.

After buying the Filco brown for work, I just bought a portable Choc mini blue. I think both are excellent in different ways. Browns are so light and quieter. Blues are tough but its sounds can be very relaxing to hear.

Anyway, you will feel that your fingers are dancing on or making love to the keyboard.

Last edited by Tony_VN (27-Nov-2011 15:28:39)
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Culinia said:

I was wondering, do you alternate between the two different styles since (I think) you find them uncomfortable or do you just stick to one?

I haven't needed to get under the blanket to type recently.  I do have circulatory and rheumatic problems that are exacerbated by the cold weather.  We've had a mild winter so far in the UK so it hasn't been that bad.  I really find it difficult when my hands are cold.

At first I tried a lot of variation: standing, sitting, laying, tilts on the keyboard etc, but I've settled down to a rather conservative typing position.  Only on the odd day am I ever comfortable with it.

Ideally I'd like a recliner or rocking chair, with an adjustable mount for the keyboard (and perhaps the monitor) to fasten to the seat.

I would buy a Filco, if I could get the same kind of satisfaction as Tony_VN, but I doubt the keyboard alone would deliver such pleasure for me.  I think it's in part an age thing, when young I didn't even notice bad posture.

The steel series 7G is available on Amazon for around 80 pound in the UK.  But it has black cherrys - from what I can gather they are kind of similar to the black alps.  I wonder if there is much difference in feel between them and the the browns or blue switches compared to what I have already?

The Dell is a bit noisy which means I can't use it at night as it would be unfair on the neighbours.  The Filcos go for around 120 pound, which is substantially more.  I've seen a mechanical Cherry - the G80 for around £60, but it doesn't sound as if it's as well built as my current Dell.  The steel series 7G, is meant to have pretty crappy caps by all accounts. 

From mucking about with keyboards I think I found the vertical split keyboards (TIE fighter style), the most comfortable.  That's really just a hunch though, as I could only experiment briefly with two cheap rubber domes.  It's a shame Filco don't do a split keyboard, perhaps I should buy two tenkeylesses!

Anyway I'm going off topic.  Perhaps you only really see the benefits of a mechanical when you exceed the 60wpm mark.

I have had days where my setup feels nice, but sadly they are quite rare for me.

--
Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

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Regarding Dvorak and the right hand bias.  I think it's more noticeable for a Qwerty typist moving over, as Qwerty is left heavy.  Having said that the right hand gets the added burden of some punctuation with Qwerty, Dvorak and Colemak.  A plus for Colemak would be the use of caps lock as backspace.  I should really try the same out under Dvorak...

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Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

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Pinky, you know you want the DataHand. You just know it. Don't let certain of its followers scare you. ;)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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@dreymar, I'd love the datahand.  And if you send me one, I'll give you free marketing (if it works)!  It looks like a nice design - but it's hard to say until you've tried something.  I'd kindly sport a pair.

I've a couple of ideas for alternative input devices myself!  It's the doing it part that's difficult.  With the current crop of miniature  technology, I'm sure you could do something wonderful.  Even if that was just in the software layer.

--
Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

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@pinkyache: You only have two hands, so give them the best peripherals (mouse, keyboard) to work with.

Black Cherry and black alps switches are not very good for typing, since they have not bumps and have very strong resistance.

Blue and brown are good for typing, they have bumps that tell you when you have registered a key. Blue have stronger bumps (more resistance) and clicky (noisy), while brown are less bumpy and not clicky. Which switch is better depends on each people's preference.

Since your experience are mostly with black and black Alps, I think your assumptions about mechanical keyboard is not truly objective. Please try blue and brown, of course, if your finance allows it, then reconsider.

Last edited by Tony_VN (29-Nov-2011 03:22:31)
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I thought I would post a long overdue update:
High scores

30sec - 108wpm
1 min - 106wpm
2 min - 100wpm
5 min - 91wpm

I have to say, and encourage to everyone that just practising a few 1 minute tests a day make typing feel more easier at speed over time. Without giving too much thought to it, typing at a consistent 90wpm+ is now achievable for myself in 30s-1min tests.

I would also like to restate that my previous QWERTY high scores were no more than 65wpm so it is entirely possible to beat your old score if you put the time and mind in.

Happy typing!

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My goodness, you've come far! Grats.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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Culinia said:

I would also like to restate that my previous QWERTY high scores were no more than 65wpm so it is entirely possible to beat your old score if you put the time and mind in.
Happy typing!

I would say it is, if you've put more effort into learning the new layout than you had in Qwerty.

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