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    Polish letters

    • Started by moskit
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    • Registered: 05-Feb-2007
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    I've switched to Colemak few days ago. I've tried to get polish characters but with no result.
    According to instruction I've pressed AltGr + char 't' + char 'a', but instead of 'ą' I've received '˛á'.
    Maybe I didn't understand instruction properly?

    Here are expected and result chars:
    ą -> á
    ę -> é

    ć -> ç
    ń -> ñ
    ó -> ó
    ś -> ß
    ź -> ?

    ż -> æ
    ł -> í

    Maybe it will be enough to edit file Colemak.klc?

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    • Shai
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    • Registered: 11-Dec-2005
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    To type "ą" you should press AltGr+G ([T] on QWERTY), release the AltGr key, and then type A. I think you're keeping the AltGr key pressed.

    To type "ż" you should press AltGr+[.] (dot), release the AltGr key, and then type Z.

    It's explained on the Mutilingual page.

    I'm not sure how good Colemak would be for Polish, because the letter frequencies in Polish are very different from most other languages.

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    • Registered: 05-Feb-2007
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    Thanks it worked. But as you said it is not so easy. Maybe there is simplier way to use polish letters? Mapping as in ordinary keyboard layout? Ie. every special character only by AltGr + [letter]

    I've checked Colemak with your applet and must say that I'm under impression.
    Besides most time I use english, and qwerty also was not optimized for polish :)

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    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    Yes, that's the way for you to go. What system are you using? I'm guessing Windows XP?

    Any particular way you'd like your setup done? The obvious way would be for instance "ż" on AltGr+"z", "ą" and "ę" on AltGr+"a" and "e", etc. Think it through - it's certainly doable.

    Międzynarodowy!

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • Registered: 05-Feb-2007
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    Yes, Windows XP.

    Should I change registry? Or maybe file 'klc' or 'klm2000' in Colemak installation.

    The mapping you proposed is the best one.

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    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    I made an installer like the one in Shai's install package for you!

    Nothing really brutal had to be done, although a few symbols from other languages that were present both as AltGr and as dead key trigged chars are now only available from dead keys. This will only matter when typing non-English AND non-Polish. My only regret was not being able to fit the "á" in comfortably - it's now on dead key only and that's a bit of a pity since it isn't uncommon.

    Last edited by DreymaR (22-May-2007 14:18:55)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    Okay, here we go. I used MSKLC v1.4 so this should work even with Windows Vista:
    http://folk.uio.no/obech/Files/Keyboard … olemak.zip

    This is the standard keyboard:
    Polish_Colemak_1.gif

    This is the AltGr keys, with the special characters and several dead keys (Shift+AltGr has only one - T - for double accent):
    Polish_Colemak_3AltGr.gif

    I kept the ż at the same finger as the z to make it easy to remember. It's a hard-to-type placement, so if it's used more often than I think then it might deserve something better. I felt it would be most consistent to keep all the accented chars at the base letter position.

    I put "é" on the original QWERTY "e" position since it had to go somewhere and that place might be easy to remember (not for Polish, but it's used in English). The chars that are missing from AltGr are still available from the dead keys.

    I hope it works as it should! Note that this is a quick conversion and not optimized for Polish as Shai pointed out. But let us know if something seems wrong, and feel free to suggest improvements although I cannot promise 100% tech support.

    Best of luck!

    Last edited by DreymaR (22-May-2007 14:17:15)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • Registered: 05-Feb-2007
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    Thanks a lot !!!!
    I'm installing and will test :)

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    • Registered: 22-Jul-2007
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    Helo!
    A quick experiment with the Java comparison applet shows that Colemak is much better also for the polish language. I have prepared another polish version with 'ź' and 'ż' on their standard positions:
    http://mczard.republika.pl/polmak12.zip

    BTW. In polish, there are some letters pressed with the AltGr, which is very uncomfortable. Maybe replacing Capslock with AltGr would help? A script for this is in the package (not tested).

    [typed Colemak, 10 wpm so far]

    Last edited by carbon (18-Aug-2008 13:48:19)
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    • From: Oslo, Norway
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    Right; I put the ź on the Z key for consistency with the other Acute accented keys which were allowed to stay on their unaccented letter keys. Could you Polish people tell me what works best for your language, please? If the general consensus is that the accent consistency is less important than consistency with Polish QWERTY then I could remake my own file to be like Carbon's (but with all the extra keys still in there).

    AltGr on the CapsLock key? Maybe; let us hear how you like it after some use. I use my own AltGr key some and I do agree that it feels cumbersome next to the Space bar - although with some practice moving the right thumb so it hits AltGr works fairly well. Then, you can hit all letter keys quite easily to produce AltGr combos. If you did use the left pinky, all the left hand positions would be stretched so you might find it harder to hit for instance AltGr+G and even easier to miss all the left-hand keys with AltGr?

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • Registered: 22-Jul-2007
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    DreymaR said:

    Right; I put the ź on the Z key for consistency with the other Acute accented keys which were allowed to stay on their unaccented letter keys. Could you Polish people tell me what works best for your language, please? If the general consensus is that the accent consistency is less important than consistency with Polish QWERTY then I could remake my own file to be like Carbon's (but with all the extra keys still in there).

    It's just a matter of consistency with the standard polish qwerty keyboard. All polish people are accutomed to have AltGr+Z = Ż and AltGr+X = Ź.

    DreymaR said:

    AltGr on the CapsLock key? Maybe; let us hear how you like it after some use. I use my own AltGr key some and I do agree that it feels cumbersome next to the Space bar - although with some practice moving the right thumb so it hits AltGr works fairly well. Then, you can hit all letter keys quite easily to produce AltGr combos. If you did use the left pinky, all the left hand positions would be stretched so you might find it harder to hit for instance AltGr+G and even easier to miss all the left-hand keys with AltGr?

    I use the AltGr@Capslock only for some of the polish latters - mostly for the ones typed with the right hand. However, I must use it a bit longer to say if it is good.

    Last edited by carbon (23-Sep-2007 20:53:01)
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    • Registered: 08-Jun-2009
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    Hi there!
    I've made polish letters for linux.
    ążźćñęśół under console and X.
    Avalible on:
    http://lukaszpp.ovh.org/colemak.pl-1.0.zip
    With instruction
    Best regards!
    ----------------------------------------
    Updated!
    -> added install information for linux
    -> added support for spanish, german and french special letters

    Last edited by lukaszpp (09-Jun-2009 13:56:43)
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    • Registered: 22-Jul-2007
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    Unfortunately, I was unable to install this colemak layout on Linux. I tried it on Lubuntu 12.10, but some of the directories do not exist.

    I have been using Colemak for 5 years now on Windows, but now trying to work on Linux it looks like things are much more difficult.

    Any ideas how to proceed on Lubuntu?

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    • Registered: 22-Jul-2007
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    Heh... after an hour of fighting I realized that the layout Us/English/Colemak has all the polish letters I the right locations. Is it standard or was that the partially done installation of the layout with the instructions from lukaszpp?

    Anyway, I can now type ąćęłńóźż :-).

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    • Registered: 22-Jul-2007
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    Here is a new location of the layout for Windows:
    https://app.box.com/s/1cn9rfy6ywy0rbzqoj1ws5vjpf8lwasx

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