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    Changes to language settings in Windows 8

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    Looks like this will effect keyboard layout settings too.

    https://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/201 … -want.aspx

    And hopefully make it more intuitive and easier to switch between them (we can but hope...)

    Last edited by pinkyache (23-Feb-2012 16:14:24)

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    This is really a teaser article, but it's probably a good time to make yourself heard...

    > But display languages are only one part of the overall language story for Windows 8. In a future blog entry we will tell you about improvements in text entry, locale support, and other critical pieces of the Windows 8 story. Let us know if there are other language-related topics you’d like to hear more about.

    Last edited by pinkyache (23-Feb-2012 16:17:59)

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    I'm sorry but at this point I'm not sure what Microsoft can do to make me switch from 7 to 8. Anyway, that's off-topic, sorry.

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    I'm trying out the Windows 8 Consumer Preview, and it seems that the old package doesn't work properly. The layout supposedly installs and a new entry under English (United States) is created. It even shows as Colemak in the new layout switcher which I love.
    But, being an Australian user (colour, not color) I usually create an English (Australia) entry with Colemak and that works fine. But, the Colemak layout doesn't appear in the new layout list and there's no way to duplicate the US entry, or change it.
    Screenshots below:
    http://imgur.com/a/J4ofB

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    Will you all please upvote this question? Hopefully someone from Microsoft will answer (though I fear they just haven't finished the keyboard-layout tooling yet and we're out of luck). How to add/build custom keyboard layouts (e.g. Colemak) in Windows 8 CP?

    Last edited by pettijohn (05-Mar-2012 01:19:39)
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    You should probably be more specific in your question: Instead of just saying 'the Colemak installer' as if the MS people would automatically know what that is, try 'the .msi installer (built with MSKLC 1.4)' or something like that.

    Should it be an Input Method? Is that new for Win 8? Because in current Win versions, Input Methods (IME) are the kinds of things you use to enter fancy scripts like Chinese/Japanese/Hangul etc.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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    Guys check this topic out :)

    https://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?id=1378

    Colemak should be the primairy input language after this :)

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    Anyone test driving Windows 8?  Any improvements on language, locale and input settings?  Any major changes?  Is it trivial to import say the Colemak layout WITHOUT using registry fixes, or executables?

    Last edited by pinkyache (10-Sep-2012 10:21:48)

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    Been running Windows 8 pro 9200, and the Evaluation version.

    As a Dvorak user (probably meaningless for Colemakians), I have managed to add Dvorak as an input method.  And it works much better for me.

    The layout switcher, now additionally uses the keyboard shortcut Super + Space, like on OSX.  (Note this shows in the new UI, but there is no trace of the setting in the control panel from what I can work out.)

    Finding where to configure input layouts is a bit of a dark art, you can't seem to do this in the New UI under PC Settings, but you can do through Control Panel (If you can find it...) Control Panel -> Clock, Language and Region.  Shortcut there that reads Change input methods.  @dreymar is right to flag this as a change of terminology.

    I've set up two users, each with two different  input methods.  Users can  switch between them.  At the login screen: clicking on the user account allows you to then switch between the selected user's own layout. Which is a welcome change.  Especially as it seems that GDM 3 and KDM have regressed so that you can't switch layouts at login.  However, the change doesn't carry through to the desktop - which is a bit odd,  I have to  change again - or set some default (somewhere under advanced settings.)

    It seems to me that your layout, might have a loose tie to your language and location.  In Xfce (4.8) (under Debian Linux) I go to Settings->Keyboards->Layouts to add a layout. Then select my language, then the variant.   I THINK that Gnome 2 had the config in a similar place, but in Gnome 3 that's moved to Control Centre->Region and Language->Layouts.  Which doesn't make that much sense to me either.  I'm not sure who's copying who at this point with the UI.

    I'd personally like to see a setting under input devices or something.  Devices->Input Devices->Keyboard->Layouts.  Although Input devices is a bit ambiguous.  Perhaps it should be under Text Input->Keyboard->Layouts!   I might have two keyboards and want two different layouts.  Not sure if that is currently doable?  {I'd actually like to group input devices and associate them with different user sessions.  I'm sure there is an esoteric setting and config somewhere to do this in Xorg (again not Windows) - but I've never quite worked it out, but I digress.}   The point being that it would be better to at least have something more intuitive, where I could configure these things.

    {My feeling is that Windows 8, is just a little too much of a weird hybrid at the moment, with a lot of the legacy cruft still in there.  An example being that you go to add a user account in the control panel, and you get thrown into the new UI. It's all over the place.  And that's in the official release.  I really hope they change it.   I'd read that multi monitor support was much better, but it's still buggy for me.  I'm not that impressed.  I tuned back into Gnome 3 yesterday, and it felt quite pleasant by comparison.  Having said that, I have issues with that.  I'm just sour that the best version of Windows since 3.1 is still lacking in some really obvious places.  I expect a far more polished product.  Windows 8 still feels like a  Beta release at this point.}

    Last edited by pinkyache (29-Jan-2013 14:27:31)

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    pafkata90 said:

    I'm sorry but at this point I'm not sure what Microsoft can do to make me switch from 7 to 8. Anyway, that's off-topic, sorry.

    Oh thats simple. Stop supporting it with security updates.

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    pinkyache said:

    Looks like this will effect keyboard layout settings too.

    https://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/201 … -want.aspx

    And hopefully make it more intuitive and easier to switch between them (we can but hope...)

    May I ask what OS do you primarily use? It makes sense to choose Dvorak since it comes built into every OS these days. I still don't see why Microsoft can't make the right choice and make Colemak standard as well. Everyone else has...

    Last edited by knightjp (19-Feb-2013 22:51:50)
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    @knightjp, my primary OS is Debian Linux with the XFCE desktop.  Having said that I have been flirting with Windows 8.

    On Linux I use a UK variant of Dvorak - which seems to be built in.  I prefer that to the ISO version.  On windows I'm stuck with the ISO version.  Unless I tweak it.

    I guess the demand is just not there yet for Colemak to get it baked into Windows.  I'd actually rather OSs had some standardised format for keyboard layouts, and a tool to import and set them up.  That then would make it a breeze to switch to whatever layout on whichever platform.  Perhaps that's just wishful thinking.

    Trying to bake in every layout, is a bit OTT in my opinion - where do you stop?  What about those people that use Malt, or Workman or XYZ layout why should it be so hard for them to use their layout?  Shouldn't their layouts be just as accessible?  And why should Colemak get support over them?

    I still haven't worked out how to write a British Pound sign under Windows without resorting to the character map or switching layouts temporarily or resorting to cut and paste.  I still have usability issues despite Dvorak's wide support.

    Last edited by pinkyache (21-Feb-2013 17:54:07)

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    That is why I like the fact that Mac OS has Colemak & Dvorak built in. Makes switching layouts so easy.

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    pinkyache said:

    I still haven't worked out how to write a British Pound sign under Windows without resorting to the character map or switching layouts temporarily or resorting to cut and paste.  I still have usability issues despite Dvorak's wide support.

    You can hold the left ALT and type 0163 on the number pad.

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    @knightjp, which is fine for you!  But what of others that don't choose to use those layouts?  What if you later want a variant of Colemak?  You'll then be realiant upon hacks.  Colemak has only recently made it's entry into OSX.  I'm rather puzzled as to why Colemak is there under Linux.  I guess it's a case of throwing dirt at the wall and seeing what sticks.

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    I'd be honest. I don't agree with some of the stuff said about the Dvorak layout on the FAQ page. Seems too much of marketing hype vs real scientific facts. It seems as if Shai has taken note of a few minor start up difficulties of a few users and blown them into major flaws that are not worth your time and effort getting used to.
    To market Colemak as a viable alternative, maybe he needed to. If that is the case, I can probably consider my tiny difficulties with colemak as huge flaws too. But in the interest of being objective and honest, I cannot do that. I can honestly say that while I do not agree with some of the stuff, I can say that those minor difficulties do exist and if you've used Colemak, you would struggle to find a reason why would you settle for anything else; Dvorak. You might think that it looks like a reworked QWERTY with all the letters in a strange mix, I can say that having looked at it, there was some real viable ergonomic science in there.
    That is why I see it as a viable keyboard to be added to Windows. Apple adding Colemak to list isn't just about throwing dirt at a wall & seeing what sticks, they only did it 'cuz they knew its worth it. I'm guessing that Linux guys thought so too.

    @pinkyache - To be honest, I still like the thought of your layout. Left hand mouse and Dvorak is feels nice. But needs a little getting used to.

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    @pafkata - that does not work in Windows 8!  Or at least I can't get it to work.  Or maybe it's because I tried with a laptop without a number pad.  Windows 8 just makes a noise everytime I hit Alt.

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    It works only with the left alt and the number pad, not the number row, sorry :\

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    Pinkyache: Careful with your metaphors, please. Otherwise it could get dirty... ;)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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    Well I see that can easily be the case. Linux makes it easy for anyone to make something and share it. Kinda like the Apple iTunes store. There are some pretty decent stuff there. But since anyone can create an account and upload it, there are some pretty pointless rubbish as well there.

    But I say that if you are using a proper Distro like OpenSUSE & Ubuntu, then they probably  have tried and tested these and only make the good stuff as standard.

    Last edited by knightjp (27-Feb-2013 07:29:16)
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    @knightjp - try not to sway too much from the original topic.  There ain't no such thing as a 'proper' distro.  Good name for one though, I might have to steal that.

    My comment was tongue in cheek about the inclusion of Colemak into GNU Linux.   It's a bazaar model after all!  The point I was really getting at, is what warrants a layouts inclusion?  And why should those with exotic layouts suffer?  Can't we increase accessibility for all rather than having to wait years for XYZ's layout to be included?

    @Dreymar mentions how MS selects layouts for their OS, which is rather bizarre and troublesome in itself.  At least there is method in their madness.  Apple are probably just being crowd pleasers.  Woz is meant to be a Dvorak user, so perhaps they are a little more receptive to alternatives in their camp.

    MS's initial announcement really excited me, in that they were going to have a rummage and a sort out.  At least they were making the right noises.  Great to see them have a stab at a practical solution to layout selection at login.  That makes it far easier for me to use a shared PC. (Using Dvorak that is.)

    Last edited by pinkyache (27-Feb-2013 11:00:17)

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    Changing a keyboard layout should be made easy. Whatever the OS. After all, being the end users, its us that are gonna be using the device day in & day out.
    I struggled with choosing over Dvorak & Colemak due to the which layout is easily available across all the OS. I ended up choosing Colemak due to its features and shortcut compatibility; the same shortcuts across all the OS.
    Mind you I'm still not sure on whether I like the close to QWERTY feel though.

    Last edited by knightjp (27-Feb-2013 12:17:09)
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