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    Anyone feel pain in their right thumb after a while using colemak?

    • Started by bmende
    • 11 Replies:
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    • Registered: 22-Oct-2012
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    I'm averaging 38 right now after 400 races on typeracer (I would add a screen shot of my progress but i dont now how to attach things on here) and all of a sudden I start feeling pain in my right thumb. I use the space bar with my right thumb and i think this may have to do with the fact that colemak uses more hand alternation (as opposed to 15% favored on the left hand with qwerty) so im using my right hand more then i'm used to.



    you think i should keep typing for a few days, and see if the pain goes away, if it does then good, if it doesnt then maybe i should first try using my left thumb for spacebar, and if that doesnt work then maybe i go buy a microsoft 400 natural keyboard (if you don't know what that is then google it its an ergonomic keyboard)?

    Last edited by bmende (25-Oct-2012 17:27:50)
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    • From: Sofia, Bulgaria
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    If it's the thumb that's hurting, then I'd say your problem is your typing posture. Maybe you need to think about how you keep your hands when typing. What keyboard are you currently using? Are your hands relaxed on the keyboard whenever you're not typing? Are they relaxed when you're typing as well?

    I wouldn't switch the thumb for the space. I would figure out the source of the thumb pain and get that fixed. Switching the thumb will hurt your speed till you get used to the timing which can take a while, but if you want, you can try. In general it sounds better to use the left thumb for the spacebar since the rest of the load is slightly more to the right hand, but in reality (my experience) it doesn't matter that much for the space, since your thumbs are over the space almost all the time anyway.

    Just by the way, when people usually talk about "hand alternation" they refer to how often do you alternate between your hands while typing. The exact percentage comes from the chance that the next key is going to be pressed by the other hand. So 70% hand alternation for the layout would mean that when typing text, after each key, there's 70% chance that the next key will be pressed by the opposite hand. It doesn't have anything to do with how much the layout is biased to the left or right hand.

    Sorry if you knew that, I must have misunderstood you in that case.

    Last edited by pafkata90 (25-Oct-2012 18:22:30)
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    • From: Viken, Norway
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    I've heard similar before, but never experienced anything like it. Could it be a stress thing, that you hammer the space bar too hard? Maybe you're tense because you're learning a new layout?

    The MS Natural is a membrane keyboard, right? So it's not really all that ergonomic, is it? Evil cheap membrane keys making your poor fingers bottom out at each stroke, owie. If you want more hand separation and/or a better wrist angle, there are other ways to achieve that (check my signature)...

    Last edited by DreymaR (25-Oct-2012 18:32:52)

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    Colemak uses the right hand 6% more than the left hand (source: Carpalx), so you must utilize left hand more, for Caps-Backspace and the space bar if possible, in order to balance the workload.

    To use the right thumb to press space bar makes your right hand work 9-10% more than the left hand, which is not good in the long term. Luckily most people are right-handed anyway.

    For the keyboards, if you type a lot, then you must consider buying a mechanical keyboard, which is easier on your fingers.

    For more information, you can read Mechanical keyboard Guide here
    http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mecha … guide/0_20

    Last edited by Tony_VN (26-Oct-2012 04:44:23)
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    Honestly, using any thumb, say, 5–10 % more shouldn't equate pain. The thumbs are in my opinion badly underused anyway (just look at how the Kinesis makes them blossom; and you don't hear the kinesistas complaining?). So my hypothesis would still be based around possible tension.

    Last edited by DreymaR (26-Oct-2012 12:09:49)

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    I get keyboard related pain in my hands, neck, fingers, and wrists.  And i partially account this to stiff keyboards, but mostly from over doing it.

    After spending a day hammering away at some code during the week (I'm heavier with my typing when coding - a habit I'm finding difficult to liberate myself from,) my hands and fingers weren't good for much the following day.

    I experienced a lot of teething pains when I first started out touch typing - real discomfort.  I think the typing exercises can be particularly brutal.  You might also be be more stressed to begin with (with the concentration), and can become further stressed out with yourself at being stressed.

    Make sure you afford yourself some healthy breaks, and try and loosen your hands a little.

    Last edited by pinkyache (07-Nov-2012 12:51:04)

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    • From: Berkeley
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    Tony_VN said:

    Colemak uses the right hand 6% more than the left hand (source: Carpalx), so you must utilize left hand more, for Caps-Backspace and the space bar if possible, in order to balance the workload.

    To use the right thumb to press space bar makes your right hand work 9-10% more than the left hand, which is not good in the long term. Luckily most people are right-handed anyway.

    For the keyboards, if you type a lot, then you must consider buying a mechanical keyboard, which is easier on your fingers.

    For more information, you can read Mechanical keyboard Guide here
    http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mecha … guide/0_20

    Also, to be clear, the majority of people use only one shift, and it's usually just the left. This basically balances it out by itself, and along with Caps-Backspace, you'll probably do a lot more pinky-work than (theoretically) desirable. But I don't think anyone's sensitive to feel pain from a 5-10% alternation imbalance though. Just a thought.

    Colemak (start 11.5.12): ~80 WPM.
    QWERTY: ~90 WPM.

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    • From: Sofia, Bulgaria
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    I don't think the majority of touch type users use only one shift, and since we're talking about Colemak, I assume almost every user is touch typist.
    Anyway, just thought I'd mention this.

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    pafkata90 said:

    I don't think the majority of touch type users use only one shift, and since we're talking about Colemak, I assume almost every user is touch typist.
    Anyway, just thought I'd mention this.

    Well, a lot of "touch typists" these days aren't actually touch typists in the true sense of the word. For example, if you're going to type "nk" in Colemak, the touch-typist way would be to use your index finger for both keypresses. But most people simply adapt to this by using middle-then-index finger. Similarly, a lot of people have simply gotten used to using just one shift key, and even when doing "A", they use pinky-then-ring finger.

    Now, I can't claim just how many people do this, but if we generalize our definition of touch typist to the more practical one (i.e. people who generally touch type but adapt for some of its failures), then I'd argue that the majority of them use only one shift key. And this isn't necessarily less effective either. By using individual adaptations such as the example above, there really isn't a difference (as far as I can see anyways). And not to mention the fact that the keyboard is (unfortunately) not even symmetrical, i.e., the right shift key is further away than the left.

    Colemak (start 11.5.12): ~80 WPM.
    QWERTY: ~90 WPM.

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    Touch typing means simply typing without looking at the keys. It does not mean anything about the technique you're using. You could touch type with 4 fingers. I don't know how many touch typists go for only one shift, but it seems quite unproductive, and puts more strain on the hand that's stretching for the shift, instead of using both hands.

    I assume most Colemak users have been thought to type with typing tutors, and I don't know a single one (tutor) that doesn't say to press shift with the opposite hand of the letter. From that point on, a normal person would only improve, which in my book is pressing Shift with the letter on the same side only if the next letters would require awkward movement from the other shift. For example for "So" I'd type S with the left shift, since it's less awkward than having to move my pinky from the right shift to the "o". Personal preference. I don't know how many people do this... shift alternating, and have no statistics to show how many touch typists use only one shift to back what I'm thinking, but either way it's not something crucial we need to bother thinking about a lot :)

    PS: I think what you mean when you say "touch typing" is the classic technique, which is only one of the many.

    Last edited by pafkata90 (06-Nov-2012 23:16:48)
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    pafkata90 said:

    Touch typing means simply typing without looking at the keys. It does not mean anything about the technique you're using. You could touch type with 4 fingers. I don't know how many touch typists go for only one shift, but it seems quite unproductive, and puts more strain on the hand that's stretching for the shift, instead of using both hands.

    I assume most Colemak users have been thought to type with typing tutors, and I don't know a single one (tutor) that doesn't say to press shift with the opposite hand of the letter. From that point on, a normal person would only improve, which in my book is pressing Shift with the letter on the same side only if the next letters would require awkward movement from the other shift. For example for "So" I'd type S with the left shift, since it's less awkward than having to move my pinky from the right shift to the "o". Personal preference. I don't know how many people do this... shift alternating, and have no statistics to show how many touch typists use only one shift to back what I'm thinking, but either way it's not something crucial we need to bother thinking about a lot :)

    PS: I think what you mean when you say "touch typing" is the classic technique, which is only one of the many.

    My previously conventional definition of touch typing was indeed in regards to the classical technique. And as I said, if we're talking simply about typing without needing to look at the keys (the more generalized one), then I'd argue that this corresponds to a large majority of internet users, many of which simply abide by the typing tutor lessons only to a certain degree and learn by the real world from there. For example, it's safe to say that a lot of internet users these days no longer need to look at the keyboard to type (in terms of purely the alphabet and not including the symbols above the numeric keys), e.g. any college kid on a laptop. Then simply googling "Do you use both shift keys?", you'll get most results as people using just the left. And if you're arguing that the majority of these people can't type without looking at the keyboard, you'd be dead wrong.

    Now if we're restricting ourselves to purely Colemak users, then we'd have to run a poll on this forum or something for more of an accurate demographic. But I'd still stick with my chances that even a lot of Colemak users use only the left shift key, coming from their QWERTY-background.

    Colemak (start 11.5.12): ~80 WPM.
    QWERTY: ~90 WPM.

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    Fair enough. I agree, with slight doubt that Colemak users use only left shift, but anyway.

    Sorry for hijacking your topic bmende. Any improvement with the thumb soreness?

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