• You are not logged in.

My switch to Colemak

  • Started by Aleeneh
  • 32 Replies:
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 12-Dec-2012
  • Posts: 16

Hello everyone,

For a long time now I have been plagued by wrist pains. I have De Quervain syndrome and have been told it is chronic and to learn to live with it. However, this caused a bit of a problem for me when typing. My typing speed on QWERTY is so fast that after a short while of typing at a high speed, my wrists start to hurt a lot - and when they do I can't do much of anything until the pains stop again in a few days' time. This was rather inconvenient and rather painful... so when a friend of mine mentioned alternate keyboard layouts, I immediately latched on to that and started looking into it myself.

I have been in doubt for a while on whether to go for Dvorak or Colemak. My main reason for choosing Colemak ended up being that Dvorak put quite a large strain on the pinkies and wanted them to reach for the upper row a lot. My pinkies are very short and I would have to move my entire wrist to reach those keys with them. On Colemak, those keys are used much less frequently.

On Qwerty, my average speed was about 85 wpm, but although I could type without looking at the keyboard, I only used three of my left hand fingers and one of my right hand to type. I have a tendency to make a LOT of mistakes when typing, but am able to feel that I'm making the mistake and correct it automatically, even when I'm looking neither at the screen nor the keyboard. I once tried teaching myself to type with 10 fingers, but after so many years of typing, I couldn't learn it anymore.

Thus, now with Colemak I am starting over, trying to learn to use 10 fingers. I started on December 1st and on the first few days I only practiced for a while every day, because I was too slow to do any normal typing in it. Then, I took a break for a few days because I had an insane workload for university and needed to be able to type at a good speed. After four days I came back to Colemak and I have since then made a cold turkey switch and my typing speed is at a level that I can bear it, now.

However, my main problem is STILL accuracy. For some reason, even when I know where the keys are, I keep making mistakes? Do you guys have advice for that? My low accuracy slows me down a lot and I wish to improve it, but no matter how slowly I type, the mistakes keep coming.

My WPM over the past days is as follows. I haven't tested today, yet. The x's are for qwerty days. The number is the WPM average, the % is accuracy.

Dec 1: 13    90%
Dec 2: 18    91%
Dec 3: 21    95%
Dec 4: 24    98%
Dec 5: x    x
Dec 6: x    x
Dec 7: x    x
Dec 8: x    x
Dec 9: 30    90%
Dec 10: 32    90%
Dec 11: 37    88%

Edit: Did one test today of 38 WPM, 90% accuracy.

Keys that I keep missing are p, g, j, l, k and ;, mostly. The top row mainly, and especially L and J - and the J is very frequent in my mother tongue (Dutch), which complicates matters. It is at a rather difficult spot for me.

Last edited by Aleeneh (13-Dec-2012 01:54:13)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 210
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,345

I agree that for Dutch the J may not be ideally placed. Maybe you should have an individually optimized layout for your needs?

For wrist pains I consider it imperative that you can type without excessive ulnar deviations. For that the Wide/Angle ergonomic mods are more important to me than the layout itself.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 12-Dec-2012
  • Posts: 16

What do you mean with the wide/angle ergonomic mods?
Also, perhaps important to note, I work on a laptop, and because I travel a lot I only ever use the laptop keyboard.

I haven't looked at any optimized layouts for Dutch yet (and I also type a lot of English), but I'm hesitant to change the layout, myself, because I know most keys are where they are for a reason.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 10-Sep-2012
  • Posts: 5
Aleeneh said:

What do you mean with the wide/angle ergonomic mods?

Check out his big bag of keyboard tricks!

If you have a wrist disorder, perhaps there are some other things to look at before alternate layouts. Your posture while typing could be wrong, your laptop keyboard could be a poor fit for your hands. From your description of the problem (excessive wrist movement, pinky strain), it sounds like standard keyboards are too large for you? In that case it may be worth investing in a mini-keyboard you can carry around:

Something like this maybe?
GKB601B_3.jpg

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 12-Dec-2012
  • Posts: 16

Nah, I think I have to explain a bit further. My wrist problems are not RSI. The causes for De Quervain are unknown, but they have not been proven to be extensive wrist use. It is a chronic syndrome and I've had it forever. However, the symptoms don't get triggered as much when my wrists don't move a lot, so in that way, Colemak is a really nice solution! So far it has already worked a bit, because I've typing mostly pain-free again for the past few weeks, after a long time of pain. I'm not sure if this is a lasting development because it may just be because I'm typing slower, but we'll see what happens in the future.
My aim for learning Colemak is not to solve my wrist problems, because that's impossible, but it is to get more comfort for my wrists. :-) My four-fingered qwerty-typing was just not ideal in any way though, and this is also just one of the things I'm doing to improve my situation, I've got myself a new chair etc too.

Thank you for the suggestions, though. It is really nice of you to look into it for me. If it was simply RSI bothering me that would have definitely been a very nice solution.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 210
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,345

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't think of RSI however, but of alleviating wrist pains due to twists. For me, the Angle mod and to some extent the Wide mod allow me to keep the wrists straight and comfortable.

   Cmk-ISO-AWide35_90d-FingerShui.png
   The AngleWide-Slash ('AWide-35') wide keyboard mod for a PC105/ISO keyboard.

Now let me explain a little: The ZXCVB shift on the bottom row lets you use the standard fingering but without moving your wrist to hit the bottom row keys. The B also becomes more accessible. The only slight downside is that the G feels like a longer stretch but that's minor. The main point is that the ulnar deviation is gone.

The Wide mod, putting some load off the pinky and making the Enter and Back keys more accessible, also has the advantage of a slightly better hand separation. I feel that this also helps the wrist position, especially on smaller boards.

Speaking of separation, I would actually be wary of using small keyboards like Neuraxis suggests! Obviously, you could try out what works for you but on a small keyboard the wrists may get a little more "bunched up"; it's bad for people with shoulder trouble I believe, but could affect wrists too. Just be careful whatever you choose.

I've used Angle/Wide mods for a long time with Colemak now. It takes a little more getting used to of course, but nothing major (like for instance learning Colemak itself)! And it's kinda nice if you can move the keys around on your keyboard for it, to get the homing nub on the right hand in its proper place at least. I usually make my keyboards Angle/Wide QWERTY and then type Angle/Wide Colemak on them. With PKL I can easily switch to Angle/Wide QWERTY mappings for my guests. Typing on unmodded boards is okay but I prefer moving the caps.

If moving your hands around is uncomfortable as well, maybe the Extend mod could be nice too. It lets you hold the CapsLock key to produce navigation key presses like arrows and Home/End, F keys and more from your home position. For example, to cut out the previous word in a text I'll hold Caps and then press S+T+N (Shift-Ctrl-Left) followed by X (Cut). Then, to insert that word at the end of the row I'll still hold Caps and press Y (End) then V (paste). Very smooth.

   Cmk-ISO-Extend_90d.png
   A symbolic chart of my Extend mappings. Green, navigation; blue, mousing; orange, multimedia; gray, system/misc.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 10-Sep-2012
  • Posts: 5

I didn't think of RSI either, I just figured the wrist pains were increased by having to pivot the hands too much because of a lack of reach to some keys, which would indicate the keyboard is too large. But yeah, I'm no expert on wrist disorders or ergonomics so it was just a guess.

DreymaR said:

Speaking of separation, I would actually be wary of using small keyboards like Neuraxis suggests! Obviously, you could try out what works for you but on a small keyboard the wrists may get a little more "bunched up"; it's bad for people with shoulder trouble I believe, but could affect wrists too. Just be careful whatever you choose.

That's a good point I guess. It was just a quick example of a keyboard for smaller hands (ergo, smaller or more tightly spaced keys). Finding one with separation as well would have required... more research, but I reckon an ISO version of that keyboard wouldn't be too bad if combined with the wide/angle mod.

Last edited by Neuraxis (14-Dec-2012 11:47:51)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 210
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,345

I suppose it depends on your fysiology: Shoulder width, arm length, finger lengths etc.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 7
  • Registered: 21-Apr-2010
  • Posts: 818

I have a friend that swears by minute keyboards, as he can fix his hand placement.

I, Like Dreymar am not a fan of being so hunched up into the middle of the keyboard.  I wish all keyboards would split in two.

At some point I was considering using two keyboards, if you have two identical keyboards and they are small enough, you can drive one with the left hand, and one with the right.  Poorman's Kenesis freestyle (well, I guess that depends on the price of each keyboard.)

Does a larger keyboard put more stress on the wrists?  I'd have thought that it might increase hand movement.  Which might rely more so on the upper body.

I'd have thought that you might get some additional stresses due to teething pains with the new layout.  It's good to hear that isn't the case.  Good luck.

--
Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 23
  • From: Belgium
  • Registered: 26-Feb-2008
  • Posts: 480
Aleeneh said:

The top row mainly, and especially L and J - and the J is very frequent in my mother tongue (Dutch), which complicates matters. It is at a rather difficult spot for me.

Hallo en welkom Aleeneh. :-)  Being from Flanders, I concur that "J" is a sore one for our language - especially the common "ij" digraph is quite a stretch.  "L" is not so bad at all.  But as I estimate I type up to 50% English (maybe more if I include unix command line typing), I didn't bother looking for Dutch-specific optimisations.  You would have to design any changes very thoroughly, not to kill the layout in other places...

I have used Colemak for almost 5 years now.  My most common mistake is still mixing up P and G. :-)

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 12-Dec-2012
  • Posts: 16

Well, my accuracy problem actually seems to be improving. It is day 17 now and I scored 46 wpm with 97% accuracy just now, and I am hitting the keys with a lot of confidence today. It makes me hope that I will be able to get past that after all. It is quite amazing how natural Colemak already feels to me. I love how it feels to type right now, and I've moved beyond the initial discomfort. 40-46 wpm is fast enough for me to not be annoyed with my slow typing speed anymore - still very slow but not frustratingly so.
I'm greatly enjoying the new layout so far. It is quite entertaining actually, and I've had the first amusing moments when people tried typing on my keyboard (which still looks like Qwerty).

@Ghen: Yes, the J is difficult, but I have decided not to do anything about it. Like you, I type English almost just as frequently as I do Dutch, so it just isn't worth it for me. In addition, changing it would be way too much trouble. I'll just learn to live with it :) My main mix-ups right now are still J/L and typing O instead of ;. For some reason the P and G are fine now.

@DreymaR: I agree that small keyboards would probably only make the problems worse instead of alleviating them. Only shortly after I started learning Colemak, the wrist pains that had been plaguing me for most of November lessened/disappeared for the most part, giving me a very nice break. They are still there, but thankfully less active. I am going to test whether it remains that way, and if it does come back I may give that wide mod a try. Thank you for that advice, I will be sure to keep it in mind :-)

@Neuraxis: My hands have a rather normal size. I just have short pinkies, they reach up to... about halfway my ring finger. Haha. They're also slightly crooked. It's a family thing.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 4
  • Registered: 08-Dec-2010
  • Posts: 656

Half your Qwerty speed is a marked milestone. It is when you are confident that you will be able to go through such hardness and hellish switching experience that we have all endured and enjoyed, somehow.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 12-Dec-2012
  • Posts: 16

Indeed it is!
It hasn't been such a hellish experience for me, actually. It's bothered me less than I thought it might.

51 wpm with 93% accuracy just now. Did most of it without mistakes, then started messing up loads towards the end. I average at ~48 wpm today.

Last edited by Aleeneh (19-Dec-2012 00:04:26)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 09-Oct-2012
  • Posts: 18

I also have a problem with accuracy, and I think I have a bit of advice on this issue, at least it worked for me:
before you type a next word, imagine in your mind how you are going to type this word and fix the mistyping in your imagination, after that you can type the word in a reality. Do it as slow as needed, do not pay any attention to the speed, while you are working on accuracy. By saying "slow" I mean very slow, even if it takes 2 seconds to type one symbol only. Remember, you want to hit 100% accuracy, even in expense of speed. When your accuracy gets higher, you can start to improve your speed again. Switch between the "speed up" and "accuracy up" lessons.

Again, I'm not sure this is a good idea for everyone, but it did work for me, for example I could achieve 100% accuracy on some lessons in Amphetype.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 12-Dec-2012
  • Posts: 16

Hm, I've tried it and I'm not sure it works for me. I don't need to visualise it, I need to create automatisms, and for me that works better :-) I do switch between accuracy and speed, though, like you said.

I have been plateauing at around 50-53 wpm for the past few days. My accuracy is slowly improving, though, so I imagine my wpm will start going up again too in a while :-)

By the way, I keep writing nk instead of kn lately. This is something new which I didn't do before.

Last edited by Aleeneh (28-Dec-2012 17:16:04)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 210
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,345

Remember to write 'nk' and 'kn' with your middle and index fingers! ;)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 1
  • From: Sofia, Bulgaria
  • Registered: 05-Mar-2011
  • Posts: 387

I was gonna write the same but then I figured, he wouldn't mistype NK/KN if he used only the index finger ;)

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 12-Dec-2012
  • Posts: 16

She :-)

And yeah I do use both fingers. It's just that the K is in the original N position, and the N is almost in the original K position, and I think that that is what's getting me confused.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 1
  • From: Sofia, Bulgaria
  • Registered: 05-Mar-2011
  • Posts: 387

Oh, a lady in the forum. Nice to meet you, and sorry for mu assumption ;)

And yeah, with some time all the confusion from the qwerty positions, will disappear.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 12-Dec-2012
  • Posts: 16

It's alright. Are the ladies so rare here? :P

I'm sure they will. Sometimes now when I don't think about it and start typing I still start typing in qwerty, it's pretty crazy. It's getting better though, but it will be a long time before qwerty is truly out of my system.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 4
  • Registered: 08-Dec-2010
  • Posts: 656

It's only a month, and you still don't ditch Qwerty. After another month, with full time Colemak use you will type Colemak fluently.

You're the second or third lady here, so it's pretty rare indeed.

Last edited by Tony_VN (29-Dec-2012 13:29:28)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 210
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,345

Ladies don't always flag their gender, Tony. Make no assumptions. In here we are typists first, philosophers next. ;)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 12-Dec-2012
  • Posts: 16

In typing tests I tend to do way worse than in my normal typing and I'm not sure why that is. Probably the pressure of trying to do it right, or my tendency to type what I THINK is there rather than what is really there.
Anyway, I finally managed a test today that is reflective of the speed and accuracy I normally have when typing now. I was typing at a very relaxed pace, taking my time without rushing it and I reached 55 wpm with 98.5% accuracy. I'm especially pleased with the accuracy, I've never been so accurate before, especially not on qwerty. I really enjoyed seeing this.

This is day 38 since I started Colemak, btw. 55 wpm 98.5% accuracy and I can do faster if I try.
Edit: Hit 60 wpm just now, also quite easily, although my accuracy went down to 96%.

Last edited by Aleeneh (07-Jan-2013 22:12:16)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 12-Dec-2012
  • Posts: 16

I still use qwerty on my phone and I keep mistyping words there. Also, I am noticing more and more how inconvenient it is to use. So many difficult letter combinations. Very annoying. It is always a pleasure to go back to Colemak; it has truly grown on me.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 210
  • From: Viken, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 5,345

If you have a smart phone, use MessagEase! See this topic.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0