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    English user with a 105 key layout

    • Started by Akiva
    • 12 Replies:
    • Reputation: 2
    • From: Leafland
    • Registered: 17-Sep-2013
    • Posts: 32

    I just bought a laptop at a great price, but the catch was that it had a french layout. That did not concern me too much considering I used colemak, but this 105 key layout is hard to get used to.
    For Reference
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ … 5_keys.jpg

    Considerations:
    horrible wrist pain from extending to shift and enter.
    The key beside the z is a -; keep hitting it by accident.
    Right hand feels more in towards the center than my left.
    I only speak english
    I do c++ programming.


    Is there a layout that already exists for me? An englishman with a 105 key layout?
    If there is none and I need to create a layout, what is the easiest method of doing this. I really want to move my right hand column over by one key.

    Thanks

    Last edited by Akiva (17-Sep-2013 12:42:02)
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    • Registered: 04-Apr-2013
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    I don't see how the w is worse than normal colemak w?

    Dreymar has a wide layout in his sig.  Maybe the angle mod would also help. I don't know enough to say whether it'd work the same way for QWERTZ-based layouts, however.  Hopefully he should respond soon.

    Modifier layers such as his "Extend" or an AltGr layer can also help in typing symbols without reaching all around.

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    • From: Leafland
    • Registered: 17-Sep-2013
    • Posts: 32
    lalop said:

    I don't see how the w is worse than normal colemak w?

    Dreymar has a wide layout in his sig.  Maybe the angle mod would also help. I don't know enough to say whether it'd work the same way for QWERTZ-based layouts, however.  Hopefully he should respond soon.

    Modifier layers such as his "Extend" or an AltGr layer can also help in typing symbols without reaching all around.


    horrible wrist pain. a typo

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,361

    What lalop said.

    - The Angle mod makes the <> key your friend rather than enemy.
    - (Keep in mind that the LShift is no farther away than the RShift is, so it shouldn't be so bad. We Euro-hooligans are used to it at least.)
    - The Wide mods make the Enter key easier – as well as Back, RShift etc
    - The Wide mods make the right hand less centered
    - The Wide mods make it easier to hit AltGr for a world of fun glyphs.
    - (The Extend mod makes it easy to reach navigation and other keys from the home position – damn useful for coders!)

    You're an Englishman you say? But the English do already have the 105th key!? Or are you the proverbial "Englishman in New York" that Sting sings about? ;)

    You forgot to tell us what platform(s) you use. Thus, I'll assume you mean Windows. Now, as you'll see in my topic sigs I have a few recommendations for a UK 105-key Colemak layout as well as a few ready-made Angle/Wide ergonomical mods. Download my PKL package and select an AWide layout, and we'll take it from there maybe?

    Last edited by DreymaR (17-Sep-2013 14:35:46)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • From: Leafland
    • Registered: 17-Sep-2013
    • Posts: 32

    Wow, glad to see your still kicking about; I just got your patch installed and will try it out in a sec.

    As said, it was a 600 dollar new x230, with an i5, so I grabbed it french keyboard or not.

    Oh and Im on ubuntu; windows sucks.

    Last edited by Akiva (17-Sep-2013 14:34:10)
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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    Heh, people taking Ubuntu for granted these days? Makes me happy. ;)

    The image you link to is a German keyboard, by the way. The dreaded QWERTZ layout, the characteristic ÄÖÜ letters and most importantly the delightful command key captions! Why use the pedestrian 'Del(ete)' when you can 'Entf(ernen)'; why 'C(on)tr(o)l' stuff when you can use your 'St(eue)r(un)g'; why 'Scroll' when you can be 'Rollen'?!? ;)

    A proper Cherry board should have moveable key caps IIRC. That makes using a WideAngle mod all the more pleasant. I usually set my boards up to WideAngle QWERTY and let guests type on that. The proper typists stumble a bit on the shifted ZXCVB keys but mostly they hardly notice it which is fun.

    Last edited by DreymaR (17-Sep-2013 14:48:15)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • From: Leafland
    • Registered: 17-Sep-2013
    • Posts: 32

    I love ubuntu.

    Uhmmm, I am able to see all your locale variants in the patch I applied, but I can't find any wide angle variants; did I do something wrong? I couldnt get the patch to work, so I just merged the folders manually.

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    Did you use the patch for the right Ubuntu version? I have 12.04 LTS and 13.04 versions available. If there's a problem I'd like to hear about it.

    Merging manually should work fine though – I even suspect that using the wrong version would work just fine as the update changes to the XKB files are minor indeed. ;)

    But the WideAngle variants aren't accessible from the options GUI for some reason these days (used to be possible in earlier Ubuntu versions). You'll need to set the xkb model by hand using for instance 'setxkbmap -model pc105awide-sl' and/or the /etc/default/keyboard file; it's there near the end of my Big Bag topic. (Yes, it's a long topic, I know...)

    Last edited by DreymaR (17-Sep-2013 14:55:09)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • From: Leafland
    • Registered: 17-Sep-2013
    • Posts: 32

    Awesome, that would probably explain it.
    I'll give it a shot and report back my findings

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    • From: Leafland
    • Registered: 17-Sep-2013
    • Posts: 32

    Just curious; one of the reasons I love ubuntu is that colemak works out of the box; have you thought about adding your varients the the ubuntu install?

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    • From: Leafland
    • Registered: 17-Sep-2013
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    it worked!

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    Nice!

    Yes, I've thought about and I'm definitely interested in adding my variants. I don't know how to at the moment though, and since I've got a lot of changes I guess I ought to break them up into smaller bits (models, locales, extend etc). Also, I should be working with the XKB source files and not edit directly into the rules files I suppose.

    All in all, it's not about adding the changes to Ubuntu but to the X.Org server itself. I hope I can get around to it sometime... and that it's welcome over there! :)

    There's also the matter of some things not being finished yet. I'd really really like to have the Extend home position modifiers (A/S/T keys) working before distributing that, for instance!

    Last edited by DreymaR (20-Sep-2013 10:35:20)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • Registered: 03-Jul-2009
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    I don't understand your problem: I'm typing on a UK keyboard and the layout of the keys is the same as the French one. I think it's called the ISO layout.

    I recommend DreymaR's wide layout, that puts one more key distance between your hands, as you wish. Trust me, once you skew your left bottom row to the left, you'll be thankful for that extra key on the right of Left Shift.

    Always use both hands when typing key chords.

    Dvorak typist here.  Please take my comments with a grain of salt.

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