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Two weeks in via Tarmak

  • Started by nate62341
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I am starting my third week of the transition to colemak.  Tried going cold turkey, but couldn't cut it.   Then I tried Tarmak and it was much easier.  Phase one was easy, only took one day.  Phase two was difficult, but I mastered it in about two weeks.  Started phase three today and it is the most challenging yet.  The "o" key is hard for me to move. Plus, since I am a programmer, I use the semi-colon constantly.

The ENTK keys are very natural now, but moving FY and O seem odd.

Anyone else have more difficulties with some letters than others?

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I suppose all of us do in different ways. I switched to Colemak the usual way, and I mixed up EIO in the first week, then RS, then PG.

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  • From: Viken, Norway
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Best of luck!

Most people hate the RS confusion with most vehemence but you haven't reached that yet. I've heard complaints about IO too, but it's so long since I switched that I don't remember other problems (also, I switched from Dvorak which is a bit different). Back then, I hadn't invented Tarmak so I couldn't try that... ;)

Ezuk, the first guy who tried Tarmak, did a "2.5" step Tarmak; he waited much longer before progressing to each new step. It's individual, but if you feel that a step is hard then maybe you could try waiting a little longer before taking it? However, you feel that your mastered keys are very natural so I guess you're okay to go.

Last edited by DreymaR (18-Oct-2013 11:37:46)

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i had very similar issues, i.e. moving through the tarmak phases, each phase is much more difficult than the last due to the accumulative effect of all the key changes, not just those in the current phase. Even if you think you've mastered the previous phase the difficulty still accumulates.

But for sure, the longer you spend in each phase, the more you should lessen this effect

In some ways, I think it is wise to simply accept that switching is hard, even with the *massive* assistance of tarmak

You will get there eventually. I think for some reason the majority of 'experience' posters here are exceptionally quick learners so try not to compare progress to them, e.g. people who reach 100+wpm in 10 days and such like

I started tarmak in june (4.5 months ago) and am now full colemak at approx 50wpm - still not fully comfortable with it but orders of magnitude better than the 'dark days' of the 1st 3 months

one thing i would recommend is 10fastfingers for practicing the most common words - i have only discovered this recently but it has given my typing a huge boost. prior to that i was mostly typeracer and a bit of keybr.com (i also installed amphetype which has all sorts of features but in practice i rarely use it)

Last edited by bph (18-Oct-2013 13:03:28)
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  • From: Viken, Norway
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Another reason the later steps may be tougher is that the first steps move the most common keys. You immediately feel the great benefit of that, and get plenty of practice since the moved keys are so common.

   Tarmak_KeyChangesVsModelGain.png

Last edited by DreymaR (18-Oct-2013 14:18:40)

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A little background, I am coming from QWERTY.  I'm not really sure how fast I type, but I've been programming for 8 hours a day for the last 15 years.  I tend to hover and have quick runs of common linux commands like "ls -l" and "<p style="">" and $this->is->fun();.  Moving the english words haven't been as bad as those commands.

I tried Dvorak a few years ago, got halfway proficient with it (30wpm), but moving the Cut/Copy/Paste shortcuts is what prevented me from sticking with it.

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bph said:

i had very similar issues, i.e. moving through the tarmak phases, each phase is much more difficult than the last due to the accumulative effect of all the key changes, not just those in the current phase. Even if you think you've mastered the previous phase the difficulty still accumulates.

But for sure, the longer you spend in each phase, the more you should lessen this effect

This makes a lot of sense.  The accumulative effect does add up.

Knowing when to go to the next level has been one of the most challenging things.  I'm currently on day 2 of Tarmak Phase 3 and the semicolon in the home row is one key I am worried about getting too comfortable with since I use it so often.  It makes me want to switch it more quickly, but that just leads to frustration.

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One question I have had is why move the S key over one finger?  It seems like leaving it alone and putting R where D used to be much easier for two reasons:

1. The Command-S or Control-S for save shortcut would remain the same.
2. If you are coming from querty, that is one less key to learn.

Genuinely curious, not trying to criticize or complain.

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i went through the phases too quickly in hindsight and got really bogged down toward the end, i think i was aiming for 30wpm before shifting phase - prob what i should have done was focussed on accuracy instead and shifted phase when i could type > 98% and ignored wpm entirely. I think that would have been a better approach

the semi colon movement is not too bad - as a programmer, I too quite enjoyed having it on the home row for a time but i can hit it fine in its final colemak position too

s and r is an horrendous switch but when it finally clicks you start to appreciate the inward roll it gives you for words with ars/rs/rst in, i.e. cars, bars, ears, parse, (arse), first, worst, burst and so on and so forth

one stupid thing i did was to colour all my keys in with a permanent marker pen. For this purpose it didn't prove to be too permanent - but it was a bit of fun see my keys reappear from the blackness, and the way they reappeared was a confirmation of the quality of the layout, i.e. the home row appeared 1st quite quickly with the other two rows following much more slowly - i use dreymars wide mods and the square brackets, back slash and hash are still partially blackened... i should have time-lapse photographed it!

Last edited by bph (18-Oct-2013 16:13:03)
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Good idea with the markers.  I've been adding black electrical tape to cover the letters as I learn them.  So far I have 11 keys blacked out, including the capslock.  It's fun to visualize the progress.

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  • From: Viken, Norway
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Everybody ask about the S! Before making Colemak, Shai had a few attempts that did keep the S in place. Due to various considerations (mainly bigrams I think) it had to move over in the end. A simple frequency analysis alone gives no strong reasons to move it I think.

An interesting quote I managed to dig up for the history buffs: ;)

Shai said:

There was actually a predecessor of Colemak called ASERTH which was designed with keeping keys on the same finger. However this turned out to suboptimal in many ways (actually more confusing when switching back and forth to QWERTY, higher finger distance, higher same finger, no consideration of finger strength/dexterity, hand balance, etc.)

Here's how it looked for the curious:

qwfdg ymklp[]
asetr huion'
zxcvb j;,./

I have heard another predecessor with the S in place too, but I can't remember its name.

Last edited by DreymaR (21-Oct-2013 09:08:56)

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Just switched to Tarmak phase 4!   LUI will frustrate me for a few days. :)

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I have been typing exclusively on Colemak for YEARS, and I am also a programmer.  I think you'll find that after you make the switch, the semi-colon is actually in a much better place.  The o and s took the longest for my brain to "click" with, but trust me, it is worth it.  I can type 100+ wpm on colemak now and have zero wrist pain.  The reason I switched in the first place was pain so bad it was starting to affect my everyday life.  I also switched to an ergo keyboard at the same time, not sure how much each contributed, but 110% better these days.

One thing that I DO find annoying as a coder, is that the layout isn't persistent in remote connections, so if you end up using RDP a lot like me, that is SUPER annoying!!!  Mapping your registry works in windows, but I haven't found a way on my macbook pro to make my layout persistant :(.

Now if they would just let me use Colemak on my stinking iPhone!!!

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which ergonomic are you using?

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jlaustill said:

One thing that I DO find annoying as a coder, is that the layout isn't persistent in remote connections, so if you end up using RDP a lot like me, that is SUPER annoying!!!  Mapping your registry works in windows, but I haven't found a way on my macbook pro to make my layout persistant :(.

So far I haven't had any problems with remote systems.  I use SSH for remote servers and Linux virtual machines for local development on OSX and the layout has been following me around just fine.

I'm also interested in mechanical ergonomic keyboards, but I don't think my brain can handle any more change at the moment.

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i don't think there are that many, and they are all super expensive

maltron, kinesis, truly ergonomic and ergo dox spring to mind

i went halfway i.e. bought a filco and then started using the wide angle mods

it may be sacrilege to say so around these parts, but i'm not sure the cost of a mechanical is justified - you could just get a microsoft 4000 for peanuts

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I also have a Filco and I think mech keyboard is very good.

With a mechanical keyboard, you type lighter and you only have to go half travel to register a key. Since all Colemak user are touch typists, you can learn to type with the right force and feel as if your fingers are dancing on the keyboard instead of punching the keys.

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jlaustill said:

Now if they would just let me use Colemak on my stinking iPhone!!!

Typewriter-based keyboards don't really make sense on a touchscreen.  See this thread (though it doesn't really apply to iPhones either).

Last edited by lalop (23-Oct-2013 05:11:16)
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@jlaustill: Yes you can use Colemak on your Iphone and Ipad. I've done it. Google search for Colemak layout on iOS.

Last edited by Tony_VN (23-Oct-2013 06:16:06)
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Mechanical keyboards expensive? There are pretty good ones for no more than 50 euro. Considereing how much money people pay for the rest of the computer includig the mouse ( "gaming" mice are often well over 60 euro), the keyboard is nothing. It's your primary input device for god's sake! I can't comprehend how people buy computers for 1000+ and then don't want to get a proper keyboard.

As for touch, keep it in qwerty so you don't forget to type on it :D.

Posted without the aid of a rodent.

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I suggest not using Colemak but MessagEase on mobile devices. Much better IMNSHO.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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vaskozl said:

Mechanical keyboards expensive? There are pretty good ones for no more than 50 euro.

for sure, you could prob pick up an old ibm buckling spring for nothing if you keep your eyes peeled - i think it is true to say that *ergonomic* mechanicals are expensive though relative to an ergonomic rubber dome

vaskozl said:

It's your primary input device for god's sake! I can't comprehend how people buy computers for 1000+ and then don't want to get a proper keyboard.

(and as i said - sacrilegious ;-)

Last edited by bph (23-Oct-2013 10:49:28)
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I just finished my third 8+ hour day on Tarmak 4 and I think the worst of that transition is over.  The L key is still getting me, but it is getting better.  Just did a typing test and I'm at 33 wpm with 98% accuracy.  When I hit 40-50 then I'll make the full switch.  Ready to get the transition over with.

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Good transition. Please keep the accuracy at 98% or over at all times, then if you feel the speed is fast enough, then switch to the next phase.

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wise words tony - accuracy is the key...

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