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    Is it worth it for me to switch to colemak?

    • Started by yts
    • 11 Replies:
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 21-Nov-2013
    • Posts: 7

    Yes, this is really another "Is it worth it for me to switch to colemak?" thread. The problem is that everyone has different concerns, so that makes mine special. :)

    So here I am, a 22 year old whose been touch typing on qwerty since 6th grade, decided to switch to colemak a few days ago, and is now having second thoughts if this is the right way to go. You guys seem to be pretty nice so I figured I'd shoot you this question to hear what you think.

    I tried organizing my inner turmoil into a list of pros and cons.

    Reasons to switch (in order of importance):
      1) To prevent future problems: I'm pursuing a career in software development which, as I'm sure you all know (many being programmers yourselves), requires much typing. While I haven't been experiencing any problems yet, I'm concerned about the effect 40+ years of typing might have.
      2) It's probably a better layout: qwerty wasn't designed for, and definitely not with, the computers of today. By typing on qwerty one is putting in more effort than required.
      3) To improve speed: Now, I know that shouldn't be my goal when learning colemak, but at the and of the day I can't deny that it would be nice. On the other hand, it hasn't actually been proven to improve speed, but I believe it could.
    Some people have made great progress and are very happy with the switch, which is encouraging. However...

    Reasons not to switch:
      1) QWERTY is the standard: This means that I won't be able to take advantage of my typing abilities at 99.999% of computers which aren't my own. If it's connected to the internet I will most likely be able to download the colemak layout, but do I really want to have to do that? I can imagine that getting annoying, and not every computer is in fact connected.
       Also, what does this mean to my marketability? Would employers see this as an inconvenient credential of mine, if not - let's face it - downright... odd? It's advised to type in qwerty for 10 minutes every day to maintain decent qwerty skills, but at only a few days in I could only type qwerty while looking at the keyboard, and even then my speed and accuracy are nowhere where they were before. Who knows what would happen if I forget to practice for a few days or more.
      2) It may be possible to fulfill my reasons to switch simply by working on my qwerty skills: Using better posture, better keyboards and actively working on my qwerty accuracy and speed, I can probably improve my speed, accuracy and comfort significantly. 10fastfingers.com, for example would be great for this. Their practice mode focuses on the most common words and builds up from there. I've been using it for colemak and I can now type the 100 most common words at 50 wpm :D. (I am in no way affiliated with it, I just seriously thing it's a great site.)


    So basically, are the advantages of colemak worth creating this "handicap" for myself if I haven't had any real problems with qwerty (yet)? I'll be starting a graduate program in the Spring, so I feel now is the most convenient time to start.

    A really big thanks in advance for your help.

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    • From: Tampa, FL, USA
    • Registered: 24-Aug-2012
    • Posts: 24

    I'll try to address your points as you gave them.  I'm not a Colemak advocate, so my perspective will probably be different than the others you'll hear.

    1.) Preventing issues: Considering that many people who switch to an alternative layout (not just Colemak) claim relief when they do, it's probably safe to say that a better layout than QWERTY would be a good preventative.  That said, many if not most people go their entire career without developing issues.  Odds are against developing problems if you are conscientious, use good ergonomics and don't have any physiological tendencies toward RSI issues.

    2.) Better layout: No question Colemak is a better layout.  Does that really matter that much?  Only you can decide what you're comfortable with.  There at least hundreds of millions of happy QWERTY typists.  Are they all wrong?  I doubt it.  Is less effort better?  A good argument can be made for taking the stairs rather than the elevator.  Take your pick.

    3.) To improve speed.  Despite some people's claims, I see no evidence that Colemak is inherently faster.  Perhaps given everything else equal, but things are never really equal.  Talent and practice makes speed.  Colemak and QWERTY are not a Ferrari and a Yugo.

    4.) QWERTY is the standard:  This is why I gave up learning Colemak.  I'd learned carPalX's optimized layout and forgotten how to type QWERTY.  It was very uncomfortable and ended up being prohibitive to performing my job functions adequately, where I needed to be able to work at anyone's computer.  I faked it pretty well but my boss could tell I was having issues typing on his machine.  I went back to QWERTY, which took quite some time, then decided to try Colemak since it was closer to QWERTY.  I could tell right away that it wasn't close enough.  I went back to QWERTY and eventually designed my own layout which is much closer to it.

    4.1) Marketability: as you can see from my job requirements, it makes a difference.  If you were just a programmer or writer who's not expected to use other people's computers, then nobody even needs to know, except perhaps the IT guy who supports your machine.  If you're a Windows guy, it's a bit more difficult to switch layouts, but Mac and Linux make it a breeze, so it's no problem there.  If you decide to go with Colemak, be ok with having to look at the keyboard when typing QWERTY or be ok with practicing it frequently.  You *can* learn to do both, but it's hard and needs a lot of practice at first.  I would maintain QWERTY practice while learning Colemak.  It'll make learning Colemak longer, but you'll be better off.

    5.) You're entirely correct, as long as you don't have a predisposition for injury, you can attain all of your goals on QWERTY with some diligence.  It's up to you whether you're curious enough to spend the time on Colemak or anything else.  It sucks doing it then deciding it's not worth it later, but there are loads of happy Colemak users who never want to go back.

    Cheers.

    Minimak - Better typing without losing QWERTY
    http://www.minimak.org/

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    • Registered: 21-Nov-2013
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    Thank you for your very thorough and sensible response.

    I was leaning towards going back to qwerty, and you may have put the nail in the coffin. You will have to live with that for the rest of your life, I am sorry. Colemakers, you've got yourself a challenge!

    Now I have to get rid of this Dell XPS which I now realizes requires way too much typing effort than should be necessary. I see Lenovo changed their laptop keyboards recently. Does that make them just as bad as the rest? Which laptops have good keyboards these days? (Maybe I should start a thread about this.)

    I will probably remap my capslock key to backspace, though, as that's a really nice feature. Or might that be too much for my left hand to handle with qwerty?

    Last edited by yts (26-Nov-2013 21:34:51)
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    • Registered: 08-Dec-2010
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    Either you think you can or you think you can't, you're right. Your mind will automatically find the unshakable facts to prove for your reason.

    After converting successfully, I still think Colemak is not for everyone except a very few hardcore experimenters that occupy less than 1% of the population. These experimenters tend to live according to their own rules and prefer doing things by their own way.

    From my point of view, the benefits of switching are plenty, the desire to get rid of Qwerty is imminent, but the fears of not belonging to the masses are even stronger for some people.

    Peer pressure is a formidable power to be reckoned with.

    Last edited by Tony_VN (25-Nov-2013 07:29:48)
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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    What I'd do is use the Extend feature (check out my PKL or XKB topic depending on your OS) instead of just a Backspace on Caps. You can use that with QWERTY if you wish to. It's what I'd consider a minor mod and a lot easier to get used to than Colemak. But you'll get hooked on it and that'll affect Ted's point #4 (deviation from standards) – it's a lighter situation than a full layout change though.

    Then, if you're happy with your newfound powers you might want to try an angle/wide ergonomic mod? Also a lot lighter than going Colemak, and comfortable/useful enough to tempt the slightly adventurous. My wife has been using a machine with the WideAngle mod and didn't complain (granted, she's no blind typist but more of a semi-hunt'n'peck typist) so it's a quite light investment too.

    There's the Tarmak layouts but I myself (their "creator" or should I say birth helper) think of them more as learning tools towards full Colemak than proper full-use layouts. They do have the interesting property of being max-benefit-for-min-change optimized with respect to letter frequencies at least – but if you're certain you won't end up with Colemak you might as well go for some other light layout like lilleyt's (I don't know which would be best for you). In sum, there are lighter layout alternatives, and Tarmak lets you "try before you buy (the full package)" if you wish.

    Last edited by DreymaR (25-Nov-2013 09:56:43)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    • Registered: 21-Nov-2013
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    Tony,
    I would love to do things, especially this, my own way, and it's not the peer pressure that I'm worried about. It's the inconvenience of not being able to do it the other way when I have to that concerns me.

    DreymaR,
    Thank you for your suggestions. Unfortunately, I don't think I can even handle just a few different keys, so I may have to drop the whole alternate keyboard thing :(

    davkol,
    I am definitely considering a better keyboard for when I become more stationary.
    Right now, a job would be nice. I can get picky later :)

    I really enjoyed using colemak and it was very apparent that my fingers were hardly moving on common words, as well as almost no SFU, but alas, I don't have the guts to really make the switch. Shall I feel more confident in the future that typing on an alternate layout isn't so bad after all, Colemak will be my first choice.

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    Good luck for you then. For me, I always bring colemak.exe with my USB just in case I need to type for quite a long time on another PC.

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    Yeah, and Dropbox is a friend in need whenever I can access the net. PKL is never far away, with Extend and all.

    Even if you "can't handle different keys" I suggest trying out Extend. You will come to the dork side. It is your destiny.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    I'm not sure why you are so hesitant,  the hard part is choosing a layout!

    I have a job where I have to do a fair bit of hot desking.  Switching between Qwerty and Dvorak on Apples is realatively straight forward.  As long as I remember to switch back, no one cares.  (There is one guy in the office who has a problem with my layout choice, but he's the guy that moans about most things.  He doesn't really understand or want to understand why I'd use it, and can't handle the thought of any deviation from the way he works.)  Because I do a fair bit of desktop hopping, I'm reluctant to try out other layout mods or personalise too much.

    At the end of the day if you are not hot desking you'll end up personalising your own workstation, and you'll feel friction whenever you sit in front of someone elses.  We customise our environments: software, shortcuts, launchers, keyboards, monitor height etc.  Power users more so.   It's worth optimising your own setup and toolset where it will save you time and make things easier in the long run.

    I occasionally pair program with Apple users.  Easier for me as the office uses the same hardware and operating system thoughout.  Having to swap keyboards would be a pain if not.

    The times I haven't got my own layout it is a pain, that's true.  There are some odd gotchas when using a different layout.  Some software ignores my preferred layout (games, Opera Next).

    With some apps/games it is easier to just switch to Qwerty and accept the defaults.  This might be a pain if text entry is involved, and in that case you might need to remap controls and stick with your own layout.

    If you read other threads, there's a lot of people that start off thinking they'll keep up their Qwerty but are quite happy to ditch it and never look back.

    Last edited by pinkyache (26-Nov-2013 13:23:32)

    --
    Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

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    • Registered: 21-Nov-2013
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    DreymaR,
    I checked out Extend and it looks pretty good. I'm not entirely sure how to get it working with PKL though.

    pinkyache,
      It's true that everyone customizes their workstations, but usually not to the extent that it's hard to function on the average machine. The reason I'm hesitant is that for now I think it's important for me to be able to type well in qwerty at this point in my life, and ever since I learned it the first time, I've never consciously tried to improve it. Shouldn't that be the first step? Or are my concerns unwarranted?

    To be honest, I'm pretty torn. Now that I'm back on QWERTY, I see how much more I have to move my fingers, and SFU disadvantage is obvious to me.
    Besides for people in IT (which I may start doing part time, but I can wing that), is there any reason why not being able to type on qwerty would be a problem?

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    You started off touch typing young, so I think you'll have an advantage over old typers like me.  Good habits sound like a smart idea.  I only learned how to touch type in my mid-thirties, three years and I'm still learning.  It does feel easier with time.

    > is there any reason why not being able to type on qwerty would be a problem?

    I know enough Qwerty typists that are hunt and peckers, some of those have been using a computer for at least a decade on a daily basis, and still fumble at the keyboard.  Touch typing whatever layout has to surely be more desirable to an employer than that?  Perhaps an increased wpm is insignificant for those that knock out a couple of emails on their ipad per day. It might save you time being verbal!

    I'm in the UK, a short trip over to France lands me in a country where they have a foreign layout!  Qwerty isn't as universal as many perceive.

    --
    Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

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    • From: Viken, Norway
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    In the PKL folder there are vk_qwerty-No layouts for "passing through" the QWERTY layout you're using. That is, the AltGr mappings will be the same as those you had which may or may not suit you. I dubbed it "qwerty-No" since I've tested it on Norwegian QWERTY (ISO) keyboards, but they should work on any keyboard (although on some you may have to move the keycodes of the OEM_# keys).

    You may choose between a Wide and a non-Wide version; I suspect you'll want the non-Wide for now. Then you'll need to use a pkl.ini file based on the pkl_nonAngleWide.ini file (copy-paste-rename it to pkl.ini) and set a 'layout = ' line with the name of the vk_qwerty-layout you chose.

    Any trouble?

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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