typematrix 2030 vs. ergodox - Alt Gr not working for full Colemak? - Experiences

newsboost
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19-Dec-2013 23:10:40#1 typematrix 2030 vs. ergodox - Alt Gr not working for full Colemak?

Hi all

I just bought the typematrix 2030 keyboard because I'm not allowed to install a program that maps the keys to Colemak. However, I'm really disappointed that typematrix didn't care to tell me that it doesn't really have "real" hardware support for the Colemak layout which is found here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_U … _AltGr.svg

It seems like everything with the ALT Gr key is not implemented... Such a shame...! I wanted to use the national letters, e.g. æøå, ÆØÅ. I don't understand those morons at typematrix just ignored all these key combinations... I also think the "play, app, shuffle" keys are stupid... How does that work with the ergodox? I hope not the same problem appears there (with the missing functionality of the Alt Gr key, for making full use of the whole Colemak layout...?)

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newsboost
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21-Dec-2013 00:15:53#2 Re: typematrix 2030 vs. ergodox - Alt Gr not working for full Colemak?

What do you mean, there aren't any scan codes. Ofcourse there should be a solution. I complained about the fact that they say it's a US-"colemak"-layout and received this:

When we created the Colemak version of our keyboard, it was created for the English 101 keyboard. We had no idea that anyone in Europe would be wanting one -- sorry for our short-sightedness, but we didn't even know if we would sell any in the US. We just thought that it was a good layout, and decided to support it. English does not use Alt Gr, so it didn't even enter our minds.

There is not a work around or a way to make the Alt Gr work for European languages that we know of. When you put the keyboard into the 102 key mode (Fn + F2) the Alt Gr will work. This is definitely more work, and you would have to find where the appropriate letters are located in order to have them appear, but it may work if it is important enough for you.

When putting in a new order for keyboards sometime in the coming year, we will try to make this correction. In the meantime, if you wish for a refund, we will be happy to give you one after returning the products.

I'm a bit more happy about them now... I didn't expect this problem. I'm not sure what I want - probably try out the erdodox...

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newsboost
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21-Dec-2013 01:15:27#3 Re: typematrix 2030 vs. ergodox - Alt Gr not working for full Colemak?

newsboost said:

What do you mean, there aren't any scan codes. Ofcourse there should be a solution. I complained about the fact that they say it's a US-"colemak"-layout and received this:

When we created the Colemak version of our keyboard, it was created for the English 101 keyboard. We had no idea that anyone in Europe would be wanting one -- sorry for our short-sightedness, but we didn't even know if we would sell any in the US. We just thought that it was a good layout, and decided to support it. English does not use Alt Gr, so it didn't even enter our minds.
There is not a work around or a way to make the Alt Gr work for European languages that we know of. When you put the keyboard into the 102 key mode (Fn + F2) the Alt Gr will work. This is definitely more work, and you would have to find where the appropriate letters are located in order to have them appear, but it may work if it is important enough for you.
When putting in a new order for keyboards sometime in the coming year, we will try to make this correction. In the meantime, if you wish for a refund, we will be happy to give you one after returning the products.
I'm a bit more happy about them now... I didn't expect this problem. I'm not sure what I want - probably try out the erdodox...

Oh, now I see... When it seemed like everything was lost I just discovered that in my OS I should switch to my own national keyboard layout, danish and then these keys will print my national letters (this is with the qwerty-layout):

æ = the key with P / printed on it
Æ = shift the same key

ø = the key with 9 ' " printed on it
Ø = shift the same key

å = the key with [ { * printed on it
Å = shift the same key

BUT! If I tell my OS that I'm using a standard US keyboard then:

; = the key with P / printed on it
: = shift the same key

' = the key with 9 ' " printed on it
" = shift the same key

[ = the key with [ { * printed on it
{ = shift the same key

I wrote this to typematrix including that I would really prefer if they could make the keyboard behave like it should with the Alt Gr button according to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_U … _AltGr.svg

Last edited by newsboost (21-Dec-2013 01:16:05)

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newsboost
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21-Dec-2013 20:55:18#4 Re: typematrix 2030 vs. ergodox - Alt Gr not working for full Colemak?

Yes, I've learned a bit now. Maybe a solution could be that if no driver is used then the keyboard should work as now. But maybe optionally they could offer a driver to make a real "colemak" keyboard layout... I'm not sure. My reason for this suggestion is to not have to learn and switch between too many different keyboard layout all the time... But maybe they'll think of something clever. I think an optional driver could fix this Alt Gr problem. But the driver is ofcourse OS-specific.

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22-Dec-2013 00:28:38#5 Re: typematrix 2030 vs. ergodox - Alt Gr not working for full Colemak?

davkol said:

No need for special driver. Just standard QWERTY layout with Colemak's higher layers. You can do that by yourself.

Yes, with ergodox, right? I think I'll buy ergodox and I understand it has layers which I can program myself. But with the typematrix 2030, I don't think there are layers or any method of making the Alt Gr button work to achieve a "real US colemak" keyboard layout? I think I should buy ergodox...

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23-Dec-2013 01:41:01#6 Re: typematrix 2030 vs. ergodox - Alt Gr not working for full Colemak?

Yes, you're right. It's a shame that it's not easy to get this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_U … _AltGr.svg

Except that with e.g. ergodox. I think I should buy the ergodox... It's just a bit confusing with all the options to consider... I think I would like Cherry MX browns, but it seems that is not an option for the ergodox, for some reason... There's a lot of new information I have to read and absorb, in order to make sure I order the correct things...

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23-Dec-2013 15:27:06#7 Re: typematrix 2030 vs. ergodox - Alt Gr not working for full Colemak?

davkol said:

Except that with e.g. ergodox.
Even with ErgoDox, you can't do more than something like this easily.
In theory, you could modify the firmware to send Unicode strings, but it's not really simple.

So with ergodox it's also impossible to make an "alt gr" button work as with the "standard colemak on a normal qwerty keyboard"? The idea is that I don't like to learn a lot of new keyboard layouts the whole time... Obviously I hope you understand that it would be nice if "colemak" was just "colemak" and there didn't existed numerous different "colemak"-layouts... Now I bought the 2030 keyboard for my work, but at home I currently use "das keyboard" which I'm thinking of replacing with the ergodox. I think my typing speed would increase if I didn't have to switch between too many different keyboards...

davkol said:

edit: BTW if you need full hardware Colemak, because you aren't allowed to modify software on some computers for security reasons, I doubt you'd be allowed to use a Teensy-based keyboard, which could be considered even bigger security threat (e.g. keylogger?).

I'm the only one using this pc so I doubt they have a problem about me logging what I type myself. And besides, other people just get confused of looking at my alternative non-standard keyboard (I think they only know about staggered qwerty-layouts). If they wanted to use my pc, they would probably use their own keyboard.

I now made this for any other danish users: http://www.sendspace.com/file/q07tiy (maybe it'll be improved slightly in the future but I now consider it 95% done - it was made with gimp)...

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24-Dec-2013 02:57:33#8 Re: typematrix 2030 vs. ergodox - Alt Gr not working for full Colemak?

Hi davkol

About the "software colemak": My stupid IT department has no idea why I would ever use anything else than the ordinary qwerty-layout. They think if it works for them, it should work for me too. But I get pain in my wrists at the end of the day and that's why I learned colemak in the first place. My company will not allow me to use portable keyboard layout-program. And windows 8 doesn't natively know of the colemak layout (I think linux and mac does it now)... It would be nice if microsoft would implement colemak as software layout in their keyboard section.

Everything else is cumbersome... I'm not exactly sure what I'll do. Looks like I have to learn to switch between layouts. I'm currently learning the 2030 keyboard colemak layout and my average typing speed is really low. I have to look extremely long for all symbols. Anyway, that's just how it is, I suppose. I hope within a month I'll get very happy with the 2030 layout. Right now I'm using it with the colemak skin on, but I think it makes the key presses too hard so I think I'll eventually remove the skin...

I'll currently have to learn to switch between 2030 and software colemak on a qwerty-keyboard (such as my laptop keyboard). I think I'll now accept this and struggle on with learning a new layout and new shortcuts / key combinations for symbols... Have a nice christmas :-)

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