• You are not logged in.

Emacs user learning Colemak, slowly

  • Started by jfmcbrayer
  • 82 Replies:
  • Reputation: 1
  • Registered: 15-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 105
bph said:

hey dreymar, i did think your mods to the no. row were a step to far - you have reverted to standard for the top row now?

What I'd like is something like Workman-P, where the shifted/unshifted states of the number row are switched, but everything is left on the same keys.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 104
  • From: Oslo, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 4,649

Bph: No. I tried both the standard and the wide number row with the wide mods, and the standard one doesn't work. Without following suit when the other half-rows move, the number keys from 7 upwards became very annoying to hit and the transition between wide and non-wide keyboards a pain. So I use the Wide/Angle mod shown in my sig topics.

Aesthetically, I agree that it's "a step too far" to mod the number row. Practically however, it's necessary. And typing has to be more about what's good for you than what's pretty. ;)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
*** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 04-Apr-2013
  • Posts: 538

I'm wondering if there's anything like a "wireless Ergodox" - a split keyboard that you can put anywhere (even, say, on either side of you while lying down) without it getting in the way.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 04-Apr-2013
  • Posts: 538

Well, one of my intended usecases is for relaxed bed usage (i.e. with hands to one's sides), which unless I'm missing something, Axios doesn't seem particularly keyed for.  However, the wireless ergodox seems like it could fit the bill, thanks!

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 1
  • Registered: 15-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 105

Okay, an update.

Thursday I got discouraged about my declining productivity, and went off of cold-turkey. For now, I'm on QWERTY for work, Colemak for leisure. I did shepherd my home server through a Fedora upgrade on Colemak, which gave me back a little confidence.

Morning tests:
Colemak: 27 WPM, 94% accuracy
             28 WPM, 96% accuracy (V.G.)
QWERTY: 82 WPM (declining!), 99% accuracy

I'm still hating D, G, L, and I.

Last edited by jfmcbrayer (12-May-2014 12:45:30)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 1
  • Registered: 15-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 105

Yesterday I felt encouraged enough to do a little coding in Colemak.

Morning tests:
Colemak: 28 WPM, 98%
             29 WPM, 97.5%
QWERTY: 81 WPM, 99.5%

I'm hating ';' right now, because I'm twisting my wrist to type it.

Last edited by jfmcbrayer (13-May-2014 13:37:21)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 10
  • Registered: 06-Jun-2013
  • Posts: 484

right ring finger for ';' is weak for sure but shouldn't require a twist of the wrist

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 1
  • Registered: 15-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 105
bph said:

right ring finger for ';' is weak for sure but shouldn't require a twist of the wrist

I think that it's partly a bad habit, and partly this keyboard. I'm sure it would be better with a matrix keyboard of some kind.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 10
  • Registered: 06-Jun-2013
  • Posts: 484

i am very tempted with a typematrix, due to the hw support for colemak plus its probably quiet

that said i need to learn to love my filco first as it cost so flipping much ;-) (minila)

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 29-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 65

I share your rage with the semicolon.

It almost has me eyeballing the layout to see if O can be moved and ; returned :D

Granted, that would mean unlearning where the O key is now - and it's already fully muscle memory for me ._.

Just gonna have to re-learn the semicolon in the proper Colemak spot I suppose.  Still unfortunate :(

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 4
  • Registered: 21-Apr-2010
  • Posts: 782

Oh stop bitchin' it's still on the same finger on the same hand ;)

It stays on the same finger but on the other hand in Dvorak, despite those that suggest that a mirrored layout is easy to pick up, it really irritated me the move to there.  Even worse as a Vim user.  But you eventually get used to these things.

Or is it hard because it's so near to its old spot, and yet feels so far?

Last edited by pinkyache (13-May-2014 20:43:30)

--
Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 29-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 65
pinkyache said:

Or is it hard because it's so near to its old spot, and yet feels so far?

This one of those things where I'm not sure if the similarities (other than ZXCV) with Qwerty is truly an advantage or not.

Two of my long running same finger hatreds I've had so far would be G and ;

For a coder, moving the semicolon is tantamount to moving the enter key!  Many languages end their statements/lines with a semicolon and might have a few within the line too!

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 4
  • Registered: 21-Apr-2010
  • Posts: 782

Some languages eshew the semi-colon, or have the use of it at the end of line as optional.

Interesting to note your initial hatred of the G and ;.  Any Colemakians want to comment on them?

--
Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 29-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 65
pinkyache said:

Some languages eshew the semi-colon, or have the use of it at the end of line as optional.

I was going to give some ultra snide remarks to this, but nah :D.

The fact is, I write in a very prolific language that makes heavy use of the semicolon.  And has for the last 40 some years :).  You aint gonna convince me to not use the language, nor are you gonna convince the language to drop the use of semicolon hehehe.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 04-Apr-2013
  • Posts: 538

I, for one, am not above being snide about mandatory semicolons.  It's one of the most terrible examples of redundant boilerplate ever adopted.

For practical solutions, I think I might set semicolon to a keychord.  Anything else, I don't think can beat just reaching for the damn thing.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • From: Italy
  • Registered: 04-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 14
bph said:

i am very tempted with a typematrix, due to the hw support for colemak plus its probably quiet

I have been typing on a Typematrix for a few days now, and I personally find it so much more comfortable than staggered keyboards, though I believe there are even more comfortable (but also more expensive) keyboards. Staggered keys put much stress on the wrists in my experience

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 10
  • Registered: 06-Jun-2013
  • Posts: 484

the semicolon isn't that bad, its actually only a small movement of the ring finger - you will get used to it if you persist (i have), especially if you're hacking C all day

i think the wide angle mods make it even more comfortable as the wrist is straighter to start with

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 1
  • Registered: 15-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 105
rebus said:

I have been typing on a Typematrix for a few days now, and I personally find it so much more comfortable than staggered keyboards, though I believe there are even more comfortable (but also more expensive) keyboards. Staggered keys put much stress on the wrists in my experience

I'm pondering a TEK, but given the price, I think it will stay at the pondering stage.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 1
  • Registered: 15-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 105

Morning tests:

Colemak: 28WPM, 98.6%
QWERTY: 103WPM, 99.7% (really pushed it).

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 1
  • Registered: 15-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 105

Morning tests:

Colemak: 30 WPM, 97.7%
QWERTY: 84.2 WPM, 99.3%

My actual speed and accuracy in Colemak is worse than this, though. It takes some steady typing to get into the mode, and in practice I'm starting and stopping all day.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 29-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 65
jfmcbrayer said:

My actual speed and accuracy in Colemak is worse than this, though. It takes some steady typing to get into the mode, and in practice I'm starting and stopping all day.

When doing my morning speed tests, I do the Qwerty test, then start typing this forum's post / update in Colemak. I'll even type any extra stuff to include (the after results stuff).  After such time, ready or not, I go for the Colemak speed test.  Then add any new stuff to the post that might have happened during the test.

It's possible that it's not enough warm up time, I dunno.

Since nearly all of my typos are now Qwerty-isms, or possibly hitting keys out of order / too fast... I just go with it.

You've got two weeks head start on me, and although our speeds are similar - your accuracy is far better than mine.

I'll admit to have done very little coding in Colemak. The closest would be some SQL.  Been avoiding C in Colemak so far heh.

I have no idea how long it will take to get used to ; positioning ... most use it gets right now is making emoticons.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 1
  • Registered: 15-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 105

Now I'm going a bit faster, most of my typos are QWERTYisms, rather than e.g. mirrored hands. So I'm going to cut out the QWERTY speed tests until those drop off.

Thanks for the encouraging words, unfy.

Colemak: 31.7WPM 97.8% (an easy sample today).

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 1
  • Registered: 15-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 105

Been using Colemak full time for a few days and not testing. Things are starting to feel natural, and I'm even able to type passphrases sometimes.

Colemak: 39.6 WPM, 97.5% (very easy sample).
             36.4 WPM, 98.3% (another easy sample).
             36.1 WPM, 97.7% (more average sample).

I'm finding I'm having new and unique patterns to my typos, which are not QWERTYisms nor swapped characters. An interesting one is "O" for "I'", like I'm trying to average them out...

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 4
  • Registered: 21-Apr-2010
  • Posts: 782

Not QWERTYisms is an interesting note.  I use Dvorak and when typing out a Colemak -> Dvorak text, I can feel the COLEMAKisms, which are uinque to that layout.  Or rather, you notice your fingers doing something they are not used to doing.  Little fingering patterns.

--
Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 29-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 65
jfmcbrayer said:

Been using Colemak full time for a few days and not testing. Things are starting to feel natural, and I'm even able to type passphrases sometimes.

I can type most of my pass phrases usually, but they're more or less 5-6 numbers, 6-10 letters, 2-4 symbols.  Sometimes they do take a few attempts... ("Did I just make a qwertyism?!?!")...

jfmcbrayer said:

I'm finding I'm having new and unique patterns to my typos, which are not QWERTYisms nor swapped characters. An interesting one is "O" for "I'", like I'm trying to average them out...

I've noted quite a few of those as well.  Might be part of the rewiring mechanism or something.  I've done O/I and N/K quite a few times.

I think, and I should note this on my thread, that most of my non-qwerty-typos are standard learning to touch type out of order key strokes.

----------

The moves semicolon is still a cardinal sin IMHO hehehe.  Slowly getting used to it.

Offline
  • 0