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Good Bye Colemak.. Its Been Fun.

  • Started by knightjp
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DreymaR said:

For events like that, you want a USB-2-USB QUICKIE around! :-D

BTW: Did you see in my topic that I implemented your DH-mod too, for Tarmak and Colemak?

The USB device is a nice idea, I noticed you'd done a whole bunch of work on it, but I confess I haven't got around to looking at it yet. Everything is set up how I like it so there is no immediate need, but it would be good to have a play around with one at some point.

The only downside I can think of is, if you rely only on such a device (and keep Qwerty in software) this does prevent you using the built-in keyboard on a laptop, forcing you to carry around an external keyboard.  As you say, it would still be useful for emergency situations though.

Last edited by stevep99 (16-Aug-2016 16:02:38)

Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

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DreymaR's solutions are interesting and innovative. But they're not for me. I'm not in the habit of carrying a USB around with me everywhere I go.

For the moment I figure that I just need to learn QWERTY properly.

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That's thinking a bit backward Steve? Of course you won't need an USB-2-USB device for your laptop since there you'll use your laptop keyboard. And since you'll then have a layout installed on that laptop, any USB keyboard you connect can use the same layout if you wish. So obviously, QUICKIE devices aren't for your personal laptop. ;-)

I use one for work, where I now have neither install nor run privileges on my office computer. And I carry one with me in case I have to use a keyboard on the fly and would like to type Colemak-CAW with Extend. I'm still trying to figure out what to use the third one I bought for – probably proselytizing. :-D

Last edited by DreymaR (17-Aug-2016 15:26:48)

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DreymaR said:

I use one for work, where I now have neither install nor run privileges on my office computer. And I carry one with me in case I have to use a keyboard on the fly and would like to type Colemak-CAW with Extend. I'm still trying to figure out what to use the third one I bought for – probably proselytizing. :-D

That's the thing, I don't really have that use case. Instead I have only two situations: either using my main home machine with separate keyboard, or, using my laptop. In either of those cases the QUICKIE would not be required as I can configure everything in software. I can see how they are useful in other circumstances, such as non-admin privileges.  Plus, it is a cool little gadget, so who knows, I might get one at some point just for the hell of it.

Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

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Indeed, QUICKIES are for on-the-fly connections and professional relations. At home, you have a better setup for more deeply satisfying experiences in a long-term relationship. ;-)

Last edited by DreymaR (18-Aug-2016 09:36:01)

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Would it be possible for someone who types English to translate the below paragraph? I'm really interested in what he is saying, but can't make heads or tails out of it:

"Its been over a decade since I touch typed qwerty, honestly no amount of it taking a minute to switch keyboard layouts to use a PC I'm working on at my work could ever make me switch back to qwerty, I'd just do
it, especially if I knew that all the computers at my work would be running something that has layout support, if I was working on something that wouldn't have layout support I'd throw down
and get a hardware usb keyboard (not a option at your work since they probable want to keep the terminals secure)."

Dreyeth said:

In the early typing contests I hear the dvorak typists got banned outright for a few years, until they petitioned to get their ability to compete back.

I think the difference between top typists using qwerty, dvorak, colemak, is simply a numbers game on user share. 99% of the world users something qwerty based
1% of those become competing typists, 1% world uses dvorak or colemak and maybe 1% of those become competing typists etc.
Not a very high ratio to produce a truly amazing world record breaking typist.

Its been over a decade since I touch typed qwerty, honestly no amount of it taking a minute to switch keyboard layouts to use a PC I'm working on at my work could ever make me switch back to qwerty, I'd just do
it, especially if I knew that all the computers at my work would be running something that has layout support, if I was working on something that wouldn't have layout support I'd throw down
and get a hardware usb keyboard (not a option at your work since they probable want to keep the terminals secure).

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He'd just switch layout and leave QWERTY. Especially if work computers allowed setting your layout, but if they didn't he'd get a programmable USB keyboard. The hassle of getting the right layout at a computer is less than the benefit of typing with a good layout.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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The biggest advantage Dvorak has over Colemak is it comes standard on just about all OS, so in your case where you needed to type something urgent on a friends PC, you could have switched the keyboard layout in 1 minute and been fine.

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With my USB-2-USB device I switch in 1/2 a minute, and get Extend mappings as well! ;-)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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MajorMajor said:

The biggest advantage Dvorak has over Colemak is it comes standard on just about all OS, so in your case where you needed to type something urgent on a friends PC, you could have switched the keyboard layout in 1 minute and been fine.

Well that's the theory, but in practice it's still a pain in the arse.

--
Physicians deafen our ears with the Honorificabilitudinitatibus of their heavenly Panacaea, their sovereign Guiacum.

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pinkyache said:

Well that's the theory, but in practice it's still a pain in the arse.

That is certainly true. Why would I do a 2 minute change to send a 5 minute email. What if I forget to change it back.. LOL...
QWERTY is not ideal and certainly not the easiest to get used to. However it is interesting that I did get used to QWERTY faster than the time it took me to learn Colemak. Maybe there was some muscle memory there or something.

I can say that I am finally making some progress on typing with QWERTY. We changed the keyboard on my office system to a DELL KB216p. Pretty nice keyboard. I do feel that my typing is faster and more controlled that using the other DELL keyboard came with the system.
At home I use an Apple A1243.. Absolutely love the tactile feel of that one. There were some people on Quora who suggest that I switch to a mechanical keyboard to increase my accuracy and speed. But when I tried my brother's RAZOR Gaming keyboard I felt my speed and accuracy were like almost nil. It wasn't comfortable for me. I prefer my Apple to that. The new DELL keyboard feels about the same the Apple which means that I am getting better with QWERTY far more easily now.
Right now my WPM is about an average of 36. I know that is not impressive, but it is quite fast for me. :)

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knightjp said:

But when I tried my brother's RAZOR Gaming keyboard I felt my speed and accuracy were like almost nil. It wasn't comfortable for me.

I tried a "gaming" mechanical keyboard one time and also found it was awful.  The keys were too light and there was no tactile feedback at the activation point. Perhaps these are good features for (some types of) games, but I found I hit the keys too hard and reached the hard bottom too easily. Very uncomfortable to type on for more than a minute or so. You probably just need the right type of mechanical keyboard for you.

Last edited by stevep99 (24-Sep-2016 13:10:58)

Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

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Those will be Cherry Red or Black switches, most likely. For a typing-gaming combo, some prefer Brown. Dedicated typists want some other color or otherwise.

Read more about it here: http://www.pcgamer.com/best-mechanical- … or-gaming/

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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DreymaR said:

Those will be Cherry Red or Black switches, most likely. For a typing-gaming combo, some prefer Brown. Dedicated typists want some other color or otherwise.

Read more about it here: http://www.pcgamer.com/best-mechanical- … or-gaming/

My brother's Razor used Cherry MX blues... They were tactile enough, but certainly did not feel as comfortable or fast on it as I am on my Apple A1243. The apple chiclet style keyboards get mixed reviews, but I think that it is a good enough keyboard. There is a good amount of feedback from the keys. Typing on the Dell in the office now does feel the same as my Apple and do feel that I am getting faster day by day; even if it is on QWERTY.

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It is so frustrating not being able to break the 40 WPM barrier on typeracer. Even after trying the same quote over and over again, the WPM seems to be going lower instead of higher. And accuracy along with it. Why does this have to be so difficult?
I can see that there are others who are using QWERTY that are doing far more better than me with insane WPM.

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knightjp said:

It is so frustrating not being able to break the 40 WPM barrier on typeracer. Even after trying the same quote over and over again, the WPM seems to be going lower instead of higher. And accuracy along with it. Why does this have to be so difficult?
I can see that there are others who are using QWERTY that are doing far more better than me with insane WPM.

As I understand that, typing speed depends mostly of
the individual neurological  response than of anything else, including layout and typing technique.
I'm not a speedy typist as well, 41WPM is the best ever result so far, but it is about twice better than my hunt and pecking in qwerty.

Last edited by ckofy (30-Jan-2017 00:08:41)
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Well, I guess I may be slow neurologically speaking but that doesn't limit me to 40 WPM. Around 70 WPM, rather. My personal goal is 80 WPM consistently. On QWERTY I never made it much past 55 WPM but that's mostly about training I believe.

I play the piano. Some pieces get borked up for you. To learn them right, you have to unlearn all the bad habits that you got while learning. It's very hard to do.

To transcend your personal typing limitations, you have to make sure you haven't got hangups. Practise your weakest words, try to find out what your biggest weaknesses are. Then solve them methodically by overtraining. But the best training is varied, so don't focus on one thing for too long at a time.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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DreymaR said:

Practise your weakest words, try to find out what your biggest weaknesses are. Then solve them methodically by overtraining. But the best training is varied, so don't focus on one thing for too long at a time.

Interesting idea. Unfortunately my weakest words are all of them.

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DreymaR said:

Well, I guess I may be slow neurologically speaking but that doesn't limit me to 40 WPM. Around 70 WPM, rather. My personal goal is 80 WPM consistently. On QWERTY I never made it much past 55 WPM but that's mostly about training I believe.

I believe I can do faster, it is just much slower progress than I expected. Need to say that I started to learn touch-typing systematically in June last year with zero previous experience. That might be harder than re-wire from qwerty touch-typing to Colemak one.
I also keep changing layout, switched from vanilla Colemak to Angle(Z)Wide mod, and now trying to re-learn to use left thumb for Space to free the right thumb for AltGr. Planning to use AltGr as Shift modifier.

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ckofy said:

now trying to re-learn to use left thumb for Space to free the right thumb for AltGr. Planning to use AltGr as Shift modifier.

Considering that I'm left handed, it is using the left thumb for Space was something that came naturally I guess. That and using the left Shift for Capital letters.

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knightjp said:
DreymaR said:

Practise your weakest words, try to find out what your biggest weaknesses are. Then solve them methodically by overtraining. But the best training is varied, so don't focus on one thing for too long at a time.

Interesting idea. Unfortunately my weakest words are all of them.


there are certainly words that you are better and poorer at. thats just a lazy response and shows that you have no real desire to get faster, which means people are wasting their time responding to you

you'd rather just complain about your woes instead of conquering them. if you care, then start paying attention where you stumble and practice those. practice the movements required of your fingers until it is comfortable (rolls are fastest). keep practicing until the word is ingrained into your memory.

i type 100-120wpm on qwerty but i'm experimenting with new fingerings such as left index on 'c', and right index on 'b' and right middle on 'u' for 'bu' and 'hu' combos. obviously my speed has now dropped, but its because my brain's memory is now disrupted. i now just need many many repetitions to ingrain the new fingering into my memory

Last edited by misterW (31-Jan-2017 04:52:17)
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MisterW: Please be nice. :-) Okay, it's all right to feel strongly about this. :-D

I can understand that it isn't easy to identify your weaknesses if you don't know how! My tip would be to type a lot in Amphetype and look at the analyses. It'll tell you what your weak words are, and more. Use it judiciously; if you type a long text about fruit and veggies you may find that your weak words are zucchini and carambole. But cross-reference weak with common or look at what words are actually most damaging, and you'll get a good idea!

MisterW: Instead of alternative lower-row fingering and weird hand jumps, consider an Angle mod! If you can get hold of an ISO keyboard (and get over the strange fear ANSI users have of them!), it may be the best solution.

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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DreymaR said:

MisterW: Please be nice. :-) Okay, it's all right to feel strongly about this. :-D

i don't feel that strongly about this topic, but i do feel strongly about that type of defeatist attitude. most people are much more capable than they give themselves credit for

DreymaR said:

MisterW: Instead of alternative lower-row fingering and weird hand jumps, consider an Angle mod! If you can get hold of an ISO keyboard (and get over the strange fear ANSI users have of them!), it may be the best solution.

although i am a big AHK user, i don't really want to remap my whole layout. thats the reason why i haven't switched to colemak. i dont want to relearn everything. i dont see the benefit as outweighing the costs. my mind already 'knows' where all the keys are, so some tweaks to use different fingers will be easier to learn than relearning the _location_ of the letters.

and yes, i only use a laptop nowadays so i'm stuck with the keyboard i've got

Last edited by misterW (31-Jan-2017 15:51:25)
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The remapping has already been done in PortableKeyboardLayout (PKL), if that's your issue. I use it all the time, for layout and Extend both.

If you're stuck with ANSI, there's still Angle-Z? But maybe alt-fingering is equally attractive after all. Keep in mind though, that the idea behind Angle mods is not to "relearn key locations" (except the poor Z in the case of Angle-Z)! It's to use a better wrist angle while keeping fingering intact.

One nice thing about a proper Angle mod is that it allows the delicious DH/Curl mods. ;-)

Last edited by DreymaR (31-Jan-2017 15:57:14)

*** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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Thanks for your comments MisterW. While it is unusual, it is fact that learning new skills and muscle memory takes twice as long for me as it would a normal person. I do not know why, but it has been that way throughout my life. Reading up on experiences and seeing how easily people advance makes me angry with myself.
I just feel that it extremely frustrating that I have been typing on QWERTY for more than 2 years now and the only bit of muscle memory that I have is pressing the BackSpace.

I'm not a defeated. I won't give up. Didn't when Colemak was hard. Stuck with that for 2 years. But when I was finally making progress with it, I made the switch to QWERTY for the very reasons mentioned when I started this thread.

At the moment, I find that when I keep in doing a certain paragraph on typeracer over and over again, my WPM and accuracy goes down. They say practice makes perfect, but I experience it having the opposite effect.
One thing that I do appreciate is the prior to my adventures with Dvorak and Colemak, I was using my own hunt and peck method with QWERTY. Now, even though every second keystroke is a backspace, I am able to type without looking at the keyboard. That shows at least while my fingers are not working properly, my brain at least has memorized the layout. 
It is now even more difficult since I shifted to a mechanical keyboard. My old Apple A1243 was a great keyboard. Although it stopped working, it certainly felt more better than this RAZOR BlackWidow with Blue Cherry MX.

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