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Mod-DH for Colemak

  • Started by stevep99
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Fixed and added a screenshot of Type Fu showing off the Mod-DH keyboard as it displays it.

Thanks!

DreymaR said:

Nice! Maybe an image in the repo main page would've been "juicy"? ;-) If you don't want to make your own, feel free to snag one of mine (just give credit for it).

Oh, and: You wrote "they you learn the keys"; I think you meant "they teach you the keys"?

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Nice! Nice, nice nice! :-)

Another tiny teepo: 'enrty'. Heh.

Of course, I'd totally delete the Workman entry... haha!

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jcowgar said:

Fixed and added a screenshot of Type Fu showing off the Mod-DH keyboard as it displays it.

Nice to see, but the pedant in me wonders why the non-angle-mod version?

To be proper Mod-DH, the D should be below the midway point of S and T.

Last edited by stevep99 (17-Oct-2017 10:41:49)

Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

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Oh yeah, forgot about that – silly me! Bad, bad ANSI keyboard!

The best DH-mod is with a ISO keyboard. If you have to use ANSI, the most common solution is the XC(D)VZ Angle mod a.k.a. Angle-Z.

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DreymaR said:

Oh yeah, forgot about that – silly me! Bad, bad ANSI keyboard!

The best DH-mod is with a ISO keyboard. If you have to use ANSI, the most common solution is the XC(D)VZ Angle mod a.k.a. Angle-Z.

Yes, that is a little bummer. You can't change the physical layout. Hy personal keyboard is homemade and uses the angle mod.

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DreymaR said:

Oh yeah, forgot about that – silly me! Bad, bad ANSI keyboard!

The best DH-mod is with a ISO keyboard. If you have to use ANSI, the most common solution is the XC(D)VZ Angle mod a.k.a. Angle-Z.

Finally something that is good with the ISO keyboards, having to write code on a Norwegian or German qwerty keyboard is not fun with all the fingergymnastics needed.

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Writing code on an ISO keyboard is just fine! You just need a good layout. Writing code on the native Norwegian locale layout is hell, but I abandoned that POS a long time ago.

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DreymaR said:

Writing code on an ISO keyboard is just fine! You just need a good layout. Writing code on the native Norwegian locale layout is hell, but I abandoned that POS a long time ago.

Yeah, with ISO I was meaning most of the European keyboard layouts, with all the altgr switching it's finger torture to write all of the interesting characters :p

The norwegian keyboard is very unoptimised yeah.

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ANSI, ISO... Matrix is a common ground between them ;)

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Forgive me for saying so, but matrix is a shitty ground, unless it's shaped/contoured – and then it won't fit on laptops so yeah. But I repeat myself.

AltGr is very okay when you use the Wide mod! It sorts out a lot of subtle things, like the right pinky load, AltGr comfort, distance to the rightmost keys. Although Extend also brings those keys into the middle, it can be good at times to vary between the Extend and physical version of, say, Enter.

But to get the "interesting characters" mapped to sensible places, I recommend Colemak[eD] or something similar.

Last edited by DreymaR (24-Oct-2017 08:40:14)

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When I'm saying "matrix" I do not mean exactly the cartesian grid for the entire keyboard, but non-staggered in the terms of ANSI-ISO staggering. It will be most likely shaped/contoured/split.
I'm just trying to say that many issues discussed above are caused because of current hardware standards. I've used Angle-Wide mod with ANSI keyboard, it is working, but it is a compromise. ISO keyboard in turn is more rare bird in US than any custom ortholinear/columnar keyboards I'm using now, so I do not see the reason for me to learn using Colemak DH in ISO layout if only me will have such keyboard anyway.

And forgive me for saying so, but laptop's keyboard is the crappiest keyboard ever invented, this is a "qwerty" of keyboards hardware. :)

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Not exactly an issue with the layout, but more a technical issue:
Executing this command on Arch linux xmodmap scripts/iso-us-colemak-dh.xmodmap
takes well about 10-15 seconds (2gen i5 intel cpu), and linux freezes during that time.

This becomes especially frustrating if I have to swap layout to my local layout just to access some local diacritics.

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european said:

Not exactly an issue with the layout, but more a technical issue:
Executing this command on Arch linux xmodmap scripts/iso-us-colemak-dh.xmodmap
takes well about 10-15 seconds (2gen i5 intel cpu), and linux freezes during that time.

This becomes especially frustrating if I have to swap layout to my local layout just to access some local diacritics.

Isn't it better to then learn how to type those diacritics on the keyboard, I still haven't found any diacritics that I'm not able to type on ed-caw I can even do crazy stuff such as ł ƀ ÿ ţ ħ ð and so on in addition to my language's most used diacritics å æ ø é ô ò and german ö ä ü ß, or esperanto ĝ ĥ ǔ for example

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european said:

Executing this command on Arch linux xmodmap scripts/iso-us-colemak-dh.xmodmap
takes well about 10-15 seconds (2gen i5 intel cpu), and linux freezes during that time.

I don't have Arch, but running "xmodmap iso-us-colemak-dh.xmodmap" seems to work OK for me on Ubuntu.
Is it just this xmodmap file that fails, or is this a wider problem with all xmodmap files?
(I assume we are talking about these xmodmap files).

To be honest though, the xmodmap files are mainly there for people to try out the layout. For a comprehensive, permanent solution on Linux, I'd recommend using DreymaR's package instead. Not least because that way you also get Extend.

Last edited by stevep99 (29-Jan-2018 11:09:44)

Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

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stevep99 said:
european said:

Executing this command on Arch linux xmodmap scripts/iso-us-colemak-dh.xmodmap
takes well about 10-15 seconds (2gen i5 intel cpu), and linux freezes during that time.

I don't have Arch, but running "xmodmap iso-us-colemak-dh.xmodmap" seems to work OK for me on Ubuntu.
Is it just this xmodmap file that fails, or is this a wider problem with all xmodmap files?
(I assume we are talking about these xmodmap files).

To be honest though, the xmodmap files are mainly there for people to try out the layout. For a comprehensive, permanent solution on Linux, I'd recommend using DreymaR's package instead. Not least because that way you also get Extend.

Correct, we are talking about same files.
I found that other linux distributions have similar freeze (even longer) when loading different layouts, so it's not particular to my layout.
I will give DreymaR's package a look when I get some spare time :)

P.S. The freeze doesn't occur at all on freebsd OS

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sotolf said:
european said:

Not exactly an issue with the layout, but more a technical issue:
Executing this command on Arch linux xmodmap scripts/iso-us-colemak-dh.xmodmap
takes well about 10-15 seconds (2gen i5 intel cpu), and linux freezes during that time.

This becomes especially frustrating if I have to swap layout to my local layout just to access some local diacritics.

Isn't it better to then learn how to type those diacritics on the keyboard, I still haven't found any diacritics that I'm not able to type on ed-caw I can even do crazy stuff such as ł ƀ ÿ ţ ħ ð and so on in addition to my language's most used diacritics å æ ø é ô ò and german ö ä ü ß, or esperanto ĝ ĥ ǔ for example

I tested ALT+GR and indeed it works fine with 'your diacritics', except I don't use any of those diacritics.
The diacritics I use are commonly found in central and southern Slavic countries (č, ć, dž, đ, š, ž, lj, nj... ).
Unfortunately I will have to debug how exactly to 'code' letters into ALT+GR layer, and hopefully my finished layout could be added as a 'variant' for south Slavic languages.

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european said:
sotolf said:

Isn't it better to then learn how to type those diacritics on the keyboard, I still haven't found any diacritics that I'm not able to type on ed-caw I can even do crazy stuff such as ł ƀ ÿ ţ ħ ð and so on in addition to my language's most used diacritics å æ ø é ô ò and german ö ä ü ß, or esperanto ĝ ĥ ǔ for example

I tested ALT+GR and indeed it works fine with 'your diacritics', except I don't use any of those diacritics.
The diacritics I use are commonly found in central and southern Slavic countries (č, ć, dž, đ, š, ž, lj, nj... ).
Unfortunately I will have to debug how exactly to 'code' letters into ALT+GR layer, and hopefully my finished layout could be added as a 'variant' for south Slavic languages.

č = AltGr+7 c
ć = AltGr+e c
dž = d AltGr+7 z
đ = AltGr+/ d
š = AltGr+7 s
ž = AltGr+7 z

The AltGr Combinations are dead-keys, or keys that doesn't do anything when they are pushed, but adds stuff to the next character, AltGr 7 for exampel is the hachek

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Do you actually need the nj and lj digraphs? I was hoping people could just write nj and lj instead – like you did in your post... ;-)

If you really do need them, I'll work them into the dead key table. I just put in dz/DZ/Dz and dž/DŽ/Dž (on the ring/ligature dead key with z/Z/D). So for DŽ for instance, hold down AltGr and press 7 (hacek) then 0 (ligature), then release AltGr and type Z.

I also just moved đ from AltGr+] to AltGr+a, which isn't yet reflected in my images. AltGr+d is ð, the Icelandic letter.

I haven't got a generic south slavic layout yet, so I'd be interested in the best way of doing it. Please check out my layout suggestions for Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia/Slovenia though.

However: Let's not hijack SteveP's Mod-DH topic with a locale layout discussion. Go to my locale layout topic from the Big Bag, or make a new one to debate south slavic layouts please!

Cmk-eD-ba%2Bhr%2Brs%2Bsi-usym-aw_Xmc.png?raw=1

Last edited by DreymaR (01-Feb-2018 11:53:14)

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Totally off-topic, but I couldn't help but think it might be fun to see if there was a Unicode character that could be used for "CAW" when writing it out. There are a number of options, but here was a fun one:

Colemak-㊋

It's the Unicode kanji for fire, circled. 9 times out of 10, this will have the common pronunciation of "hi", but a little research showed that it can also be pronounced as "ka" in some cases. Another option I saw was a Chinese character usually said as "ga", but having at least one pronunciation closer to "ka", and meaning "great", "auspicious", and similar things. Since my Chinese knowledge is very lacking, I didn't want to insult anybody by appropriating that symbol. Besides, a lot of symbols that are pronounced "ka" in a Chinese dialect end up meaning "coffee", "lag", "card" or certain words that are not really forum-appropriate.

Not terribly useful and it doesn't serve to tell you which variant it is or why it is different from vanilla Colemak, but it does catch the eye. ;) One of these days I'm going to have a better way of advertising this variant, since I think "CAW" is a little, well, stale.

EDIT: As Sotolf pointed out, the character is not uniquely Japanese, so calling it a "Japanese" symbol was misleading. "Kanji" does a better job of communicating what it is and to whom.

Last edited by azuvix (21-Jun-2018 13:36:06)
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azuvix said:

Colemak-㊋

It's the Unicode Japanese "fire" symbol, circled. 9 times out of 10, this will have the common pronunciation of "hi", but a little research showed that it can also be pronounced as "ka" in some cases.

Finally something that I can talk about, the reason one of the pronounciations of the ideogram is so similar to the chinese one is that the japanese tok it from there, You have two reading, the "japanese reading" (on) hi and "Chinese reading" (kun) ka, and 火 actually has a different meaning if it used as hi or ka, Hi is the physical fire, and ka is the fire element (wind water air etc.) it also has a different reading in different words, like 花火 fireworks hanabi, (flowerfire) and 火山 volcano kazan (firemountain) and believe me, I can go on about stuff like this for days :p So if you're curious, just ask :)

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Sotolf, you are a man of many talents. I'm glad that I wasn't in error about the pronunciation, and I'm a sucker for etymology in any language. :)

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azuvix said:

Sotolf, you are a man of many talents. I'm glad that I wasn't in error about the pronunciation, and I'm a sucker for etymology in any language. :)

Etymology is a lot of fun yeah, I still haven't found out why I love it so much, but it's a lot of fun. I studied Japanese and linguistics at the university, and now I'm working as an IT-Administrator, but well, I try to let life show me what I'm supposed to do, so who knows what I'll end up doing later :p

I've been really interested in learning plover stenography lately, but I really need some hardware that can handle it well :p

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Wow, this is so awesome: Colemak-Ka – advanced firebending for typists! Just a little annoying that it isn't water, all about the flow you know. ;-)

I do think that the Kanji/Chinese fire glyph is fairly well known and works well graphically. But I can't type it with my layouts! Oops...


COLEMAK ⲔⲰ – THE SOUL OF TYPING!?

Would you believe that in ancient Egyptian Ka means the "soul-body" or life force (while Ba is the "traveling soul" and Akh the "eternal/divine soul"), its hieroglyph being the symbol of... two hands!!! Maybe that's something right there...?

To bring this further, Wikipedia states that the Coptic word ⲔⲰ (kw) means approximately the same as Egyptian Ka, and this claim is further supported by a book on hieroglyphics I found. As an added bonus, the latin translation of Ka is ... wait for it ... genius!

To make this even stranger, ⲔⲰ would well transliterate to CAW!

So maybe Colemak-ⲔⲰ is the new thing then? The life force of typing! ^_^

ka-and-ba.jpg

(If this becomes a thing, I'm so adding ⲔⲰ to my dead key table somewhere...!)

~ Typed with Colemak-ⲔⲰ[eD] ~

[edit]
I had to go and look up ⲔⲰ in an online Koptic dictionary, and boy is it confusing!

Coptic Dictionary Online said:

ⲕⲱ    --   

    place, appoint, set down, make
    esteem
    have, get, keep
    preserve
    permit, set free, let loose
    admit, concede, suppose that
    bequeath
    quit, abandon, fail
    leave, omit
    go to, reach, enter

    loosening, slackness

    statue, naos

I really like the "set free" and "set down, make" senses, but this language is complex and the same word can mean opposite things depending on context. The "leave, omit" and "quit, abandon" senses are obviously not what I'm looking for! ^_^

Last edited by DreymaR (03-Jul-2018 10:44:41)

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I thought along those lines as well, but thought that hieroglyphic support in Unicode was a stretch of the imagination. I don't think those showed up properly once posted, though...

Dang, I'm surprised we haven't tried something like this before, where the soundalike "ka" can mean so many awesome things. :)

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azuvix said:

Dang, I'm surprised we haven't tried something like this before, where the soundalike "ka" can mean so many awesome things. :)

"Ka" means what in northern Norwegian dialects, in Austrian German it would be the word for kein (none).

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