• You are not logged in.

    Is Colemak Mod DH worth it?

    • Started by juice43
    • 5 Replies:
    • Reputation: 1
    • From: New York, New York
    • Registered: 22-Nov-2008
    • Posts: 130

    Hey guys,

    JUICE HERE.

    I've been typing on Colemak going on 6 years now.
    My speed is maxing out at about 120wpm. 
    I tend to sit between 90 and 100 wpm on average.

    Colemak is really comfortable. I recently found out about the DH mod.

    https://colemakmods.github.io/mod-dh/

    I've downloaded Karabiner and configured it on my Mac.
    It feels a little off given how used to Colemak I am.
    I can't tell if it's more comfortable since I'm not used to it yet.

    How many of you have switched? Who has switched? How is it?

    Is it worth it? What does Shai think of it?

    I'm just curious before/while switching. I'm wondering how long it would take and whether it's "better" (better in quotation marks because it's all gravy when it comes to these optimized layouts).

    Thanks.

    Colemak typist

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 117
    • From: UK
    • Registered: 14-Apr-2014
    • Posts: 978

    Hi Juice,

    Being the creator of those pages, my answer to your question is of course: Yes! 

    But it mainly depends on how you feel about the centre column keys, especially D and H.  Some people don't really like the frequent lateral movement of the hand that is required for D and H in their standard Colemak positions, especially for example for typing the very common bigram HE.  I believe the Workman layout was created largely in response to this problem, but I say Mod DH is a simpler, more elegant and also a more Colemak-friendly solution. 

    Since you have been using Colemak for many years, you might be well adapted to D and H and not see any need to change. To get a feel for it, you could try typing "the" a few times, both in the standard Colemak pattern and the Mod DH one. I think those bottom-row index-finger keys are extremely comfortable to reach, and practically home row in quality. In fact, I have noticed since using Mod DH my index fingers tend to hover slightly below the centre of the T and N keys, ready to reach for D and H on the lower row, making them almost effortless.

    The downside is of course, the worse M and (if you already use the angle mod), worse B.  But these are much less frequent keys, so the overall gain is positive in my view.

    Not sure how many switchers there are, but most who have tried it (or one its variants, such as DreymaR's lite version) like it as far as I'm aware.

    Last edited by stevep99 (08-Aug-2015 13:08:35)

    Using Colemak-DH with Seniply.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 1
    • From: New York, New York
    • Registered: 22-Nov-2008
    • Posts: 130

    It's gonna take a while to get used to.

    I'm using Dreymar's Curl Dbg/Hk version but I switched the D and V since I'm using an ANSI keyboard.

    My layout is:

    Q W F P B J L U Y
      A R S T G K N E I O
        Z X C D V H M

    I'll let you know the progress. I'm at about 20wpm right now lol

    I'm open to hearing more about the benefits of the layout.


    ***********************************************************

    10 HOURS LATER...

    I'm using this layout now:

    Q W F P B J L U Y ;
      A R S T G M N E I O
        X C D V Z K H

    I wanted to try out the wide angle mod, so I went for the Hm mod.
    So far so good.
    Speed is just as bad.

    I will hopefully be sticking with this one for a while.

    ***********************************************************
    ONE DAY LATER....

    I'm back to vanilla Colemak.

    This layout is a great idea and seems to be more comfortable for someone learning technique for the first time.
    That is not the case for a Colemak veteran.

    I quickly abandoned the non-angle DH mod layout. It's almost definitely worse than standard Colemak.
    Not using the angle mod places D at Qwerty V and V at B.
    D was then in a non-ideal position as I preferred in the C location and not the V location.
    V suffered as well, as I think Qwerty B might be the worst letter location on the board.

    The angle mod was plenty better.
    I just didn't like the new angle.
    It did not take easy after touch typing without it for over 6 years.
    I couldn't use classic technique with it either as that would shift the entire bottom row.
    Either way things were off for me.

    The worst part was the decreased speed trying to switch again.

    I'll conclude by saying that DH is worth it for someone that can configure it on their system and is switching from Qwerty.
    It is also worth it for a newer Colemak user or one that feels D and H are a stretch.

    Colemak is fine when it comes down to it, and after typing on it so long my technique is not stressful.
    D and H don't really feel like stretches. They feel like home.

    Last edited by juice43 (09-Aug-2015 20:27:06)

    Colemak typist

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 117
    • From: UK
    • Registered: 14-Apr-2014
    • Posts: 978

    An interesting report.  I'm not surprised the non-angle-mod version didn't work out, that method is not recommended. Since you don't use the angle mod, I wonder if you are not using the "standard" finger technique, and instead using your index finger for C?  That's certainly what I used to do.  If that's the case switching to Mod DH is made more difficult by the fact you have to relearn C on the middle finger, which is the technically correct one, but nevertheless quite difficult as it feels more comfortable on the index finger on a standard ANSI board.  Perhaps that would account for you not liking the angle mod?

    The angle mod does of course work less well on ANSI keyboards, although there have been some interesting suggestions, e.g. this one.

    Thanks for trying it out anyway, it's good to get feedback, whether people liked it or not.  You are the first to have reported trying it out but not liking it as far as I know!  For those that are OK with the centre-column D and H, there is of course no need to change anything, it's not surprising that some experienced Colemakers will fall into that category.

    Last edited by stevep99 (10-Aug-2015 10:00:52)

    Using Colemak-DH with Seniply.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 214
    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,361

    Too many choices! :-)

    I, too, will of course say that it's so very much worth it. But I'm worried about all these options we're pushing on people now. The sites (like CarpalX) that fling oodles of layouts at people tend to drown the good stuff in enthusiastic overkill in my opinion. But as in all open development, informed choice is the price to pay for open discussion.

    But switching layouts twice in less than a day isn't trying. It isn't even sampling. IMNSHO.

    Last edited by DreymaR (10-Aug-2015 10:12:53)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 2
    • Registered: 25-Oct-2013
    • Posts: 136

    Making  custom layouts is indeed a rabbit hole. But, fun! Some people may know that I use a custom made AdnW version for my language. Once you go the "custom" route, there are many many possibilities. What worked for me is this:
    - find a base layout that you like. Could be Colemak, Dvorak, Carpalx, Mtgap, AdnW, Capewell, etc. Just try them out, see how they feel. Think for yourself how much similarity to Qwerty you need.
    - see if the standard works for you. Often it does.
    - if not, modify, or recalculate a new layout. I feel that larger changes should be based on an algorithm, please don't design a layout by hand. Smaller modifications on the other hand should just be tried out in real life. Just swap those 2 or 3 keys and start typing, see how that feels.


    -

    Offline
    • 0