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    layout converter so you can taste typing in other layouts.

    • Started by vjustin
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    • Registered: 16-Dec-2012
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    Hi hadn't been around for a while but I just wrote a "small python script to convert a text in english into such a gibberish that the characters correspond to the keys you would need to type if you were to type it in another keyboard layout that you want to get the feel of typing in, without having to learn it."
    Why? Well, if you use qwerty one layout and want to see how it feels to type in another layout, be it qwerty, colemak, colemak-mod-dh or another layout and compare it to how it feels to type in another layouts.

    https://github.com/vmrodt/kb-layout-converter

    I release it under the Mit license so you can modify it, and use it wherever and however you want.


    Edit: the layouts.txt file has some layouts already, but you can add your own if you want (as long as it is for "english characters") it includes already layouts like: adnw, bépo and neo for ISO keyboards only, Asset, capewell-dvorak, Capewell, Colemak_DH, Colemak, Colemak-4, Dvorak, home_top_swap, Klausler, Minimak, Norman, Carpalx, Qwerf, Qwerty, Qwpr, Tarmak1, Workman, ... and others.


    Edit April 14, 2016:
    - Modified the program to use both ISO and ANSI keyboard types.
    - Fixed some very bad mistakes in some layout descriptions.
    - Updated some previous edit notices.

    Edit: Edited it to make it clearer that you can translate not only from qwerty to colemak, but also from colemak to qwerty and from , and to, whatever layouts are included in the script's layouts files

    Edit: Updated the name of the repository

    Last edited by vjustin (16-Apr-2016 15:11:52)
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    Which DH-mod? ;-)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    DreymaR said:

    Which DH-mod? ;-)

    Oh, I think that'd be stevep99's
    and I am gonna add yours too, I suppose yours would be:
    DreymaR-pc105angle-lg
    DreymaR-pc105awide-sl
    DreymaR-pc105curla-v
    DreymaR-pc105curla-b
    DreymaR-pc105caw-vsl
    DreymaR-pc105caw-bsl
    DreymaR-pc105curla-vm
    DreymaR-pc105curla-bk
    DreymaR-pc105caw-vmsl
    DreymaR-pc105caw-bksl

    right?. I don't know why I included your tarmack ones but forgot to add you other mods.

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    Heh, the ones you list there would mainly be curl/angle/wide variants (in my hardly comprehensible Linux near-shorthand). The 'vm' means SteveP's DH-mod, while 'bk' is mine.

    For testing out a layout, I think it's best to keep at least Wide out of it to limit the confusion. CurlAngle has to be there, though, and for pc105/ISO boards I only have one variant (and SteveP99 another) of CurlAngle and another with just Angle.

    For ANSI boards there's mainly AngleZ and A-Wing, both with and without Curl. But... maybe it's okay to just include the CurlAngle variants? Nowadays, while I'd encourage anyone to use an Angle mod anyway, it seems that the people interested are going with Curl too. [Also, I now remember that you don't cater to ANSI boards so nevermind.]

    Last edited by DreymaR (05-Apr-2016 20:41:03)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    Yeah, I will leave the wides out. I will maybe modify the script to use ANSI keyboards and non "english-characters" (because the only people that use ISO + "english-characters" are the British I think, and then the script is useless for everyone else, lol)
    Ok, I've added these:

    DreymaR-angle-mod    `1234567890-=qwfpgjluy;[]arstdhneio'\zxcvbºkm,./~!@#$%^&*()_+QWFPGJLUY:{}ARSTDHNEIO"|ZXCVB²KM<>?
    DreymaR-DbgHk-angle-mod    `1234567890-=qwfpbjluy;[]arstgkneio'\zxcvdºhm,./~!@#$%^&*()_+QWFPGJLUY:{}ARSTDKNEIO"|ZXCVB²HM<>? 
    Last edited by vjustin (05-Apr-2016 22:15:55)
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    Actually, the Angle mod for Colemak on an ISO board is "nearly a standard"; I don't need my name attached to it. Why not just call it "Colemak-AngleISO-mod" or such? And I do prefer the snappier "DreymaR-CurlAngle-mod" unless you think that's too unspecific.

    Last edited by DreymaR (05-Apr-2016 23:02:05)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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    Sorry, what I had meant to write was actually colemak-DreymaR-angle-mod, my mistake.

    I've just changed them to:
    colemak-(DreymaR's)-angle-mod
    colemak-(DreymaR's)-CurlAngle-mod

    *edit: If you want me to, I can leave the DreymaR part out

    Last edited by vjustin (06-Apr-2016 00:47:02)
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    Just leave the DreymaR out of the Angle mod itself, but it's okay to keep it for the CurlAngle mod. :-)

    Thanks!

    Last edited by DreymaR (06-Apr-2016 10:51:37)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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    Dreymak?

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    Nope. It's Colemak, but with mods, and that distinction is important to me. It's also important to me that the mods are modular so you can use the ones you need and not have to take the whole package if you don't want to.

    Also, much of this has grown not just from me but from the community. I may be the most active participant, but I don't want single credit. ;-)

    My own shorthand name for the Curl(DbgHk)Angle(ISO)Wide(/) Colemak[edition DreymaR] I use, is Colemak-CAW[eD](+Extend). It sounds like a coal macaw! :-)

    Last edited by DreymaR (07-Apr-2016 06:29:21)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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    Here are, as earlier suggested, some images of my favoured layouts so it's easier to know what the hell I'm talking about:

    The Tarmak (Transitional Colemak) layouts: said:

        Tarmak1_Spectral_E.png    Tarmak1

        Tarmak2_Spectral_ET.png    Tarmak2

        Tarmak3_Spectral_ETR.png    Tarmak3

        Tarmak4_Spectral_ETRO.png    Tarmak4

        Tarmak5_Spectral_ETROI.png    Colemak

    ...or, alternatively, the Tarmak-CurlAngle progression:

        Tarmak-Curl_SpectralAnimation_45d.gif    Tarmak0–5(DbgHk)

    ...ending up with Colemak-CurlAngle!

        Tarmak-Curl6_Spectral_Cmk.png    Colemak-CurlAngle

    I'm not sure about the ANSI ergo mods, as they are more about individual tastes and not to my knowledge very popular (yet?). There's the ANSI-Angle(Z) mod and the more profound A-Wing:

         Cmk-ANSI-AWide-ZQu_60d_FShui.png
         The Angle(Z)Wide ergo mod for PC104/ANSI keyboards

         Cmk-ANSI-AFrame_60d_FShui.png
         The AngleFrame or "A-Wing"(!) ergo mod for PC104/ANSI keyboards

    The Angle(Z) is shown with a Wide mod above but never mind that. If using any of these, I suppose a bit of the point would be to implement a Curl mod as well, producing Colemak-CurlAngle(Z) or Colemak-CurlAWing layouts. I haven't made images of those I think, but you can imagine how they look once DBG and HK are remapped as on the ISO Colemak-CurlAngle layout.

    The Colemak-CAW (Colemak-CurlAngleWide) that I use looks more or less like this (the 'Œ' is the VK_102 ISO specific key):

        Cmk-ISO-CurlAWide_90d_FShui.png

    ...except, I use a Norwegian locale variant in which []Œ become ÅÆØ.

    Last edited by DreymaR (13-Apr-2016 21:28:01)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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    Dreymar: Thanks for the images that I asked you for. I still have a couple doubts which I will ask you in a direct message/email, or here.

    On other note many layouts in my script files have errors, (including layouts like arensito, mod-dh, dreymar's...) and I'm hurrying up to correct them. Some of the errors come from other pages where I copied the layouts from, so now I'm going straight to the original pages from the authors to get the correct versions.

    Last edited by vjustin (14-Apr-2016 01:10:29)
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    I have updated the layouts files on github.com to add some DreymaR's Colemak mods. Also the script is now for ISO keyboards and ANSI keyboards. I have (hopefully) fixed all the errors in the layout descriptions. I added a couple messages to the user to clarify what's going on.
    I plan to, someday, modify the program to use 3rd and 4th levels.
    DreymaR: Thanks for your answers. Now that I have installed your Big Bag of Tricks I'm impressed with all the work and good thinking that you, and your collaborators, have put into it, things like the modularity are pretty cool. And of course after having your BBoT installed it was very easy to get the layout descriptions I wanted to add to my script. I chose the ones I added based on your comments on this thread and also the ones I want to taste
    Now you,  all  people still using qwerty, or Colemak or whatever layout described in the script's layouts files, download the script, run it with some text file you want to type and convert it to, for example, colemak and type it, and notice how nice it feels to type in Colemak, then do the same for Dvorak, Workman, Norman, Asset, Carpalx, Colemak mods,... and see for yourselves which feels better, which feels slower, which feels more uncomfortable, which feels unnatural, which feels right, which feels wrong, feel if the mod-dh is worth it and feel which one is better: mod-dh or DreymaR's curl mod, lol...
    Edit:Of course getting a feel of the keyboard using this method is maybe not enough to see if a keyboard layout is worth the change or see if it is better than another one. Maybe the only way to do that is to actually switch to using a new layout for weeks or months, I suppose... But using this script you can get a feel of the layout ;-)
    Edit:I try not to over edit, but I had to make clear that it not only can translate from qwerty to colemak, but from, and to, whatever layout is included in the script's layouts files.

    Last edited by vjustin (16-Apr-2016 15:16:00)
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    Nice work! :-)

    My Curl mod is also a DH-mod, though – there are two variants of Mod-DH so you should say "Stevep99's vs DreymaR's Mod-DH (Curl mod)" or the techno-speke "DvbgHm" vs "DbgHk". I know, it isn't simple is it...

    Indeed, it's very dangerous to assess a layout based on a quick taste! You'll find out how well that layout fits your current typing habits and layout experience! Not how well it fits ideal typing habits for you. That'll take a much longer time to find out, possibly more than a year.

    Last edited by DreymaR (18-Apr-2016 08:03:22)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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    DreymaR said:

    My Curl mod is also a DH-mod, though – there are two variants of Mod-DH so you should say "Stevep99's vs DreymaR's Mod-DH (Curl mod)" or the techno-speke "DvbgHm" vs "DbgHk". I know, it isn't simple is it...

    Oh, that's right... hahaha, that's actually what you meant on your first reply, when you asked: "Which DH-mod? ;-)" Seems we're back to where we started the discussion =-) I will fix it later.

    Indeed, it's very dangerous to assess a layout based on a quick taste! You'll find out how well that layout fits your current typing habits and layout experience! Not how well it fits ideal typing habits for you. That'll take a much longer time to find out, possibly more than a year.

    Yeah,... that's right. And also some mods, like the Angle mod, suggest different fingerings so in order to taste a the angle mod you'd have to use the suggested fingering. I hadn't thought about that...

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    Uhhh, the Angle(ISO) mod does NOT(!) suggest different fingerings! Every finger hits the same letter as before. It's just the wrist angle that changes for the better.

    Or did you mean the lesser-used keys in the ANSI mods?

    Last edited by DreymaR (19-Apr-2016 06:56:48)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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