• You are not logged in.

Aaargh - Developing Muscle Memory Is So Hard

  • Started by TwoLeftThumbs
  • 84 Replies:
  • Reputation: 41
  • From: Bærum, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 3,978
TwoLeftThumbs said:

Wednesday Update,

[...]

One of the pitfalls of typing tests is the danger of making the same error over and over again, thus reinforcing the errors.

Nice progress, Thumbs! Looking good.

A tip about the error reinforcing: I've taught myself to delete errors with Ctrl+Back (which can be typed easily using Extend+T+O!) so the whole word with the error is deleted and I have to type it again in its entirety! This may actually be faster in many cases, as you don't have to mash the Back button the right number of times and then pick up mid-stream. It feels easier on the brain.

But more importantly, it enforces typing that word correctly! So if you mistype certain words a lot, you'll at least end up typing them correctly once for each mistake, and your last typing experience of those words will always be typing them right! I believe you may need more drilling to actively unlearn an error pattern if it's become ingrained, but I think this trick may help you along the way at least!

Last edited by DreymaR (16-Feb-2017 10:01:26)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 10
  • Registered: 06-Jun-2013
  • Posts: 441

can i second the motion - the colemak forum is a pleasant, respectful online environment with plenty of positive outcomes

lets aim to keep it that way

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 6
  • Registered: 25-Jan-2017
  • Posts: 53
DreymaR said:

Down, boy? ;-) We're discussing a matter here, not attacking each other. The kind of cockiness I'm perceiving in the above is counterproductive. You cannot with certainty say what would help Davkol pick up speed, and your suggestion is therefore mere conjecture. And a needlessly belligerent one at that. Surely there's no need or use for that?

Yes perhaps I was out of line there. But if someone wants to make such strong claims as this ridiculous statement:

davkol said:

Looking at the keyboard itself is counterproductive by all possible accounts

.. then they should be prepared to back it up. Otherwise, a more open approach may serve them better..


DreymaR said:

As for your claim, I'd guess that someone staying at ~60 WPM for a while won't in fact likely benefit from a visual aid. When I typed at that speed (I'm not that much faster now, 60–75 WPM is my normal speed range), I knew perfectly well where each key was positioned! I've been there both with QWERTY, Dvorak and Colemak so I guess I should know.

I already used that example of myself. Certainly I know where all the keys on the keyboard are. So in that case you would say that I have no use for looking down. But the point of looking down isn't to help you remember where the keys are. Its to help you practice perfect repetitions. Do you want to repeat practicing your mistakes, while you force yourself to look up while you stumble or pause? Or do you want to repeat practicing perfect?

How about this: Do 20 fast and perfect reps while looking, then practice not looking and see if you've gotten it ingrained. Then repeat. User davkol thinks something like that is worthless and "counterproductive". Do you?

But of course, you're free to use or not use whatever methods you want.

I'll step back.

Last edited by misterW (16-Feb-2017 15:35:22)
Offline
  • 1
  • Reputation: 15
  • From: CZ
  • Registered: 14-Feb-2012
  • Posts: 426

There's this thing called a camera

Typing videos!
Open ergo keyboards! ErgoDox | WIP: Axios & keyboard.io

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 11-Jan-2017
  • Posts: 43
DreymaR said:
TwoLeftThumbs said:

Wednesday Update,

[...]

One of the pitfalls of typing tests is the danger of making the same error over and over again, thus reinforcing the errors.

Nice progress, Thumbs! Looking good.

A tip about the error reinforcing: I've taught myself to delete errors with Ctrl+Back (which can be typed easily using Extend+T+O!) so the whole word with the error is deleted and I have to type it again in its entirety! This may actually be faster in many cases, as you don't have to mash the Back button the right number of times and then pick up mid-stream. It feels easier on the brain.

But more importantly, it enforces typing that word correctly! So if you mistype certain words a lot, you'll at least end up typing them correctly once for each mistake, and your last typing experience of those words will always be typing them right! I believe you may need more drilling to actively unlearn an error pattern if it's become ingrained, but I think this trick may help you along the way at least!

Great suggestion and thanks for the encouragement.! I'm only one wpm away from being an  average business typist. 38pm is bottom range of average according to an article that I read.

My Goals are much more conservative than most of you because I'm not the most coordinated person, add the short stubby Fingers and if I get to 40WPM I'll be a happy camper and if I reach 50 WPM ecstatic.

Only problem is that I don't use the Caps as backspace.
I have too many capitalized words in my work so I had to switch it back. Sigh...

I'm definitely going to incorporate Ctrl + Back into my training.
I like to learn something new every day, so you made my day.

Last edited by TwoLeftThumbs (16-Feb-2017 19:13:38)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 11-Jan-2017
  • Posts: 43
misterW said:
DreymaR said:

Down, boy? ;-) We're discussing a matter here, not attacking each other. The kind of cockiness I'm perceiving in the above is counterproductive. You cannot with certainty say what would help Davkol pick up speed, and your suggestion is therefore mere conjecture. And a needlessly belligerent one at that. Surely there's no need or use for that?

Yes perhaps I was out of line there. But if someone wants to make such strong claims as this ridiculous statement:

davkol said:

Looking at the keyboard itself is counterproductive by all possible accounts

.. then they should be prepared to back it up. Otherwise, a more open approach may serve them better..


DreymaR said:

As for your claim, I'd guess that someone staying at ~60 WPM for a while won't in fact likely benefit from a visual aid. When I typed at that speed (I'm not that much faster now, 60–75 WPM is my normal speed range), I knew perfectly well where each key was positioned! I've been there both with QWERTY, Dvorak and Colemak so I guess I should know.

I already used that example of myself. Certainly I know where all the keys on the keyboard are. So in that case you would say that I have no use for looking down. But the point of looking down isn't to help you remember where the keys are. Its to help you practice perfect repetitions. Do you want to repeat practicing your mistakes, while you force yourself to look up while you stumble or pause? Or do you want to repeat practicing perfect?

How about this: Do 20 fast and perfect reps while looking, then practice not looking and see if you've gotten it ingrained. Then repeat. User davkol thinks something like that is worthless and "counterproductive". Do you?

But of course, you're free to use or not use whatever methods you want.

I'll step back.

Thanks for having your say and agreeing to step back.

Piease Mr. Dovol & Dreymar play nice. Different things work for different people. Neither of you are right. Neither are wrong.
but iet's keep it civil. Both of you have gotten a little hot and not phrased things in friendly ways.

So let's agree to disagree, and move on.

BTW - nothing is stopping either of you from editing your posts and taking out or rephrasing the inflammatory parts.

Fighting is counter-productive
Debating is Valuable to us all.

Last edited by TwoLeftThumbs (16-Feb-2017 19:36:07)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 41
  • From: Bærum, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 3,978

Thanks for the clarifications, misterW! I think I see what you're aiming at, and it's an interesting notion. I have no strong opinions on whether it'd work for me (and I won't be trying it out now because I Have a lot of other things going on).

Thumbs, was I uncivil? Where and what, please?

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 11-Jan-2017
  • Posts: 43
DreymaR said:

Thumbs, was I uncivil? Where and what, please?

PM Sent

Last edited by TwoLeftThumbs (17-Feb-2017 18:05:20)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 11-Jan-2017
  • Posts: 43

Friday the 17th
Went from 34 WPM last Friday to 38 WPM an 11% increase.
I am now considered to be an average business typist.

As mentioned hit 37 on Wednesday and with a huge struggle went up to 38 WPM today.

Man it was really hard getting to 38 WPM!

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 11-Jan-2017
  • Posts: 43

Milestone- Today I hit 40WPM Average on typeracer! the reason why the 40wpm is a big milestone is that an article I mentioned previously said that the average business typist is at 38-40WPM. So I'm now a Solid Average!

The muscle memory is happening. My fingers are remembering words, contractions, the errors become less and less as time goes on. I wouldn't even want to try to type in Qwerty anymore because I've just about forgotten it. I even changed my Cel Phone to Colemak.

My bottom goal at the very beginning was 30WPM. So I consider myself to have succeeded at Colemak based on
my skill set.

This doesn't mean I'm stopping. My goal is now to reach 50WPM although at this point in time the max Typeracer Score ever is 47 WPM on an easy one.
So I'll shoot for 50 WPM but if I hit 45 WPM I'll be very happy.


It really feels good when your fingers  are skimming the keys and it's all going smoothly, those are the 44WPM and 47WPM scores.


Yes I know that you 60 WPM + typists are laughing at my score, but hey everyone is different and I am a mediocre, uncoordinated typist with short stubby
Fingers so 40 WPM is an accomplishment for me. It is now taking  me  hours and hours of practice for each wpm  that I move upward.

Part of the reason why I started this  thread was when I went to this Forum, I didn't see any Experience posts from Joe Average typists.  I wanted to relay my experience, to the average typists like me. At the beginning I didn't really know if at 56 Years Old with more than 43 years typing on Qwerty that I could learn a new Layout. Don't they say you can't teach a Old Dog new tricks?

I should mention that in my humble opinion Colemak is superior to Qwerty. Less stress on the fingers and hands. Even though with work combined with typing courses and typing tests i'm typing way more than ever. I don't feel any finger, joint or wrist pain. I did feel strain when I was typing withe Qwerty. Colemak is the better mousetrap of typing. I especially recommend it for those like me that are over 50 years old. You might head off Carpal or other repetitive stress injuries.

I know that there are other ways of learning than my methods of Cold Turkey and Intensive lessons (Senselang)  and practice (Typeracer) but I wanted to get up to speed fast. I'm just not the type who likes to prolong things.


BTW- I'm not gaming the Typeracer system. Whatever they give me I type, hard or easy doesn't matter.
I could be at a higher point if I shutdown typeracer whenever a very difficult challenge comes up. But then I wouldn't be
learning the tough stuff and I couldn't take pride in my achievement.!

Last edited by TwoLeftThumbs (18-Feb-2017 23:33:25)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 26
  • From: UK
  • Registered: 14-Apr-2014
  • Posts: 479
TwoLeftThumbs said:

Milestone- Today I hit 40WPM Average on typeracer! the reason why the 40wpm is a big milestone is that an article I mentioned previously said that the average business typist is at 38-40WPM. So I'm now a Solid Average!

Congratulations, that is a significant milestone. The fact that the average is apparently 40wpm tells you a lot about terrible Qwerty is!
Also you a measuring on typeracer, which is a more difficult challenge than, say, 10fastfingers. I used to find when I was using 10fastfingers, I'd normally be 5-10 wpm faster with it.

Don't be put off by the reports of super-fast learners. There are many of us around for whom the transition was slow and difficult also.

Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

Online
  • 1
  • Reputation: 6
  • Registered: 25-Jan-2017
  • Posts: 53
stevep99 said:

Also you a measuring on typeracer, which is a more difficult challenge than, say, 10fastfingers. I used to find when I was using 10fastfingers, I'd normally be 5-10 wpm faster with it.

Actually 10ff is harder than typeracer, because the words aren't aligned in proper sentences and therefore they don't make sense. Fast typists usually read many words ahead, and its easier to remember those words/phrases when they "make sense". When each word is randomized, like on 10ff, then you have to stop and think and 'reset' yourself after each word, slowing down your flow. Also, at higher speeds, muscle memory takes effect not only for letters or bigrams, but for phrases of words. For example, the most common two word phrases are "of the" and "in the" and so when those words are present in a sentence, you can blast through them very fast if you have the muscle memory ingrained

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 10
  • Registered: 06-Jun-2013
  • Posts: 441

nice one on reaching 40wpm - its a milestone because I think it represents a speed where you can 'get stuff done' once again

congratulations on sticking with it! Just gets better from here on in..

I have seen a *massive* variation in the speed with which people have progressed with colemak from the stories in this section of the forum

read my route to colemak if you want to see evidence of the 'normal' end of the spectrum - should be reassuring in as much I didn't progress anywhere near as quickly as yourself..

Offline
  • 1
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 11-Jan-2017
  • Posts: 43
misterW said:
stevep99 said:

Also you a measuring on typeracer, which is a more difficult challenge than, say, 10fastfingers. I used to find when I was using 10fastfingers, I'd normally be 5-10 wpm faster with it.

Actually 10ff is harder than typeracer, because the words aren't aligned in proper sentences and therefore they don't make sense. Fast typists usually read many words ahead, and its easier to remember those words/phrases when they "make sense". When each word is randomized, like on 10ff, then you have to stop and think and 'reset' yourself after each word, slowing down your flow. Also, at higher speeds, muscle memory takes effect not only for letters or bigrams, but for phrases of words. For example, the most common two word phrases are "of the" and "in the" and so when those words are present in a sentence, you can blast through them very fast if you have the muscle memory ingrained

I go word by word, I even change the Typeracer to 1 line showing, so I don't get confused by too many words on the screen. Maybe that will be the next level to start thinking a word or even a few ahead.

I'm still too new. One thing I found is that when I slowed down my typing and concentrated on knowing before a type a short word, or kinda dividing a longer word, or if long and difficult typing letters one by one,  that my scores actually increase.

Last edited by TwoLeftThumbs (20-Feb-2017 18:43:17)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 6
  • Registered: 25-Jan-2017
  • Posts: 53
TwoLeftThumbs said:

I go word by word, I even change the Typeracer to 1 line showing, so I don't get confused by too many words on the screen. Maybe that will be the next level to start thinking a word or even a few ahead.

Yeah that is the next level for you to attain. You want to read groups of words so that after one word, there are no pauses and you flow in to the next word. On TypeRacer, 1 line showing isn't horrible but it's not ideal.

TwoLeftThumbs said:

I'm still too new. One thing I found is that when I slowed down my typing and concentrated on knowing before a type a short word, or kinda dividing a longer word, or if long and difficult typing letters one by one,  that my scores actually increase.

Yes accuracy is way more important at the start. Backspacing and correcting is extremely slow.

Offline
  • 1
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 11-Jan-2017
  • Posts: 43

Well absolutely no progress so far this week. Even seem to have gone backwards. no more typeracer for me. It's hurting instead of helping.

Only one solution. Back to basics. Seems I may have reinforced too many errors.

I'm going to do every Senslang lesson over until speed and accuracy are excellent and then play a game of meteor.

Hopefully in two days I'll be back to jamming.

Problem seems to be that I'm interposing my letters. example switching y for w. or O for A.
Not all the time but enough to be messing with my typeracer scores.Alsothis type of error  at times pressing r (qwerty S) instead of S.
oh and I Have to fight not jumping to the second row to make a QWERTY T

It's frustating that even after a month my QWERTY memory still messes me up.
I wonder how long until QWERTY is totally forgotten.

Back to the basics.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 10
  • Registered: 06-Jun-2013
  • Posts: 441

peaks, troughs and plateaus are the name of the game post 40 wpm

at least thats what I found

best of luck

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 18-Feb-2017
  • Posts: 13

The whole R/S thing drives me nuts.  Why not leave S in the original position and put R next to it instead?

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 41
  • From: Bærum, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 3,978

"ARST thou in troubles, fair friend?" ~ not-Shakespeare

Almost every beginner asks this. I've been here so long that by now I'm tempted to blow you off with a "because!"... ^_^

Shai's pre-Colemak layouts (such as ASETION) had the S in its original place. But it didn't work because of problematic n-grams (type this fast many times on QWERTY: 'swap-switch sweet saws'). So yes, it's annoying for beginners, but apparently it's quite necessary. You'll learn to live with it soon enough.

Consider how few such annoyances there are, and you'll appreciate the delicacy with which a transition to Colemak can be made. Aren't you glad you don't have to uproot and swap fingers and hands for a whole lot of keys, like, say, Dvorak did? ;-)

Using the Tarmak transition, one step focuses mostly on RS so you can isolate the problem. Not that you use Tarmak, but I'm mentioning it for information.

    Tarmak_Spectral_ETROI-Curl(DbgHk).png

Last edited by DreymaR (23-Feb-2017 10:17:52)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 11-Jan-2017
  • Posts: 43
bph said:

peaks, troughs and plateaus are the name of the game post 40 wpm

at least thats what I found

best of luck

You definitely are describing my week!

I went back to basics for two days and my  typeracer scores were really good today.

While this week I only increased 1 letter to 41 Max in typeracer, I was able to keep an average of
40wpm for more than an  hour. So my overall typing proficiency has improved.

Instead of an very occasional 45 or 46 wpm score I had a bunch of them.

Last edited by TwoLeftThumbs (26-Feb-2017 08:08:21)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 11
  • From: Chicago
  • Registered: 27-Apr-2016
  • Posts: 137
DreymaR said:

Consider how few such annoyances there are, and you'll appreciate the delicacy with which a transition to Colemak can be made. Aren't you glad you don't have to uproot and swap fingers and hands for a whole lot of keys, like, say, Dvorak did? ;-)

Reading Dvorak Reddit I found out that Dvorak's proponents consider that delicate transition from qwerty to Colemak as a weakness of Colemak, like it is bounded to qwerty and so inherited its problems, while Dvorak is an unobscured design from scratch.
Colemak has a lot of great decisions in its design which are not visible at first sight.

Last edited by ckofy (26-Feb-2017 21:41:53)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 41
  • From: Bærum, Norway
  • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
  • Posts: 3,978

I know, because they support a layout that changes too much they protect their investment by refusing to believe that anything less will do. ;-)

I'd like to hear which problems exactly those proponents feel we've inherited?

The proof of the pudding is in the eating though, and so far I haven't seen any indications that one is significantly better in the field – apart from some annyoing things about Dvorak (which will be somewhat about personal preferences). People who have tried both certainly don't prefer Dvorak over Colemak with a very few exceptions. But that may be mostly about history.

Last edited by DreymaR (27-Feb-2017 10:57:36)
Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 2
  • Registered: 08-Dec-2010
  • Posts: 656

When you reach comfortable speed, try to increase your accuracy to 98% for a change.

Your speed will go up later.

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 10
  • Registered: 06-Jun-2013
  • Posts: 441

+1 on the 98%. Accuracy is everything. Currently working my way through the top 1000 in amphetype on 60wpm/98% - should have a good list of damaging words to work on by the end of it..

Offline
  • 0
  • Reputation: 0
  • Registered: 11-Jan-2017
  • Posts: 43

Hurray Milestone just hit 50 WPM on a burst in typeracer.

No not average speed, just a burst. But hey the highest on a burst that I've done
to now is 47wpm.

I have a new Keyboard coming in tomorrow from Amazon.
Mechanical Keyboard Gaming Keyboard Brown Switch 100% Full Size 108 keys GATERON switch with White Backlight Case White Magicforce by Qisan

It uses Gateron Brown switches and people on the Forums have been raving about Gateron Brown switches, says they are better than Cherry browns.
I can't wait to find out.

My current keyboard a Mx Cherry Blue Knockoff needs too much force. I think it's slowing me down.

Offline
  • 0