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    colemak mod-dh and swap i and o???

    • Started by milkypostman
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    • Registered: 08-Nov-2017
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    hi, long time keyboardist first time poster,

    been through a lot of different layouts. qwerty, dvorak, qwerty, colemak, qwerty, norman. going to give colemak a try again with the dh mods.

    i was wondering if anyone has considered any benefits to swapping i and o. probably minimal but just curiosity.

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    • From: Oslo, Norway
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    Why exactly would you want to do it? They have almost the same frequency so no real gains there.

    At the very least, you'd have to consider the same-finger bigrams we have to concede:
    Colemak: YI/IY
    Your mod: OY/YO
    The others are punctuation bigrams; I guess there's probably no big difference in those.

    Do yourself a favour and leave Norman by the wayside. By most measures it's quite inferior and its main raison d'être has been obviated by Colemak-Curl(DH).

    Last edited by DreymaR (08-Nov-2017 09:16:24)

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    DreymaR said:

    Your mod: OY/YO

    The common word YOU is bad enough in Colemak as it is, this change would make it worse! Definite no-no.

    Last edited by stevep99 (08-Nov-2017 18:28:18)

    Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

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    Another thing: Swapping I and O! The most common complaint of Colemak learners is about R "castling" with S. Switching the R/S pair from S-R to R-S inwards in Colemak from QWERTY, annoys people's minds a lot and we oldies spend much time trying to explain to the newbies why this has to be so with R and S. So you'd better have a really good reason for wanting to swap I/O as well!

    Well, do you? ;-)

    Last edited by DreymaR (09-Nov-2017 09:52:09)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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    DreymaR said:

    Another thing: Swapping I and O! The most common complaint of Colemak learners is about R "castling" with S. Switching the R/S pair from S-R to R-S inwards in Colemak from QWERTY, annoys people's minds a lot and we oldies spend much time trying to explain to the newbies why this has to be so with R and S. So you'd better have a really good reason for wanting to swap I/O as well!

    Well, do you? ;-)

    To be fair, Colemak moves both I and O rightward, so swapping Colemak I and O would leave O on the same finger as Qwerty. Presumably that's the motivation for OP's suggestion. Workman has O on the ring finger and I on the pinky also. But I think this is neither justified nor wise. O and I are similar in frequency, but crucially O has common bigrams with pretty much all other letters, whereas I has a number of fairly safe same-finger partners such as Y or U.

    One of the great design decisions in Colemak was to put O on the right pinky. It's really the perfect place for it!

    Last edited by stevep99 (09-Nov-2017 17:17:53)

    Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

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    yeah, i guess more of my curiosity is why oi positions are so great.

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    • From: Oslo, Norway
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    Not all positions in Colemak are so great! The idea is to build a whole that allows good typing. Sure, O and I have to have good positions since they're common letters. Some argue that Colemak A and O may not be good enough for people with weak or stressed pinkies, but I find it pleasant enough. The ring fingers are stronger but less independent, so I guess those positions are inherently better for more frequent letters that nevertheless don't get into many same-finger bigrams? But this is fairly conjectural.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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