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    Origin of the Angle Mod?

    • Started by stevep99
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    Following the discussion of the various mods and history behind them, I wonder: does DreymaR or any of the "old-timers" know more about the origin of the Angle Mod?

    There is this quite well known post, and for a long time, anecdotally lots of people have complained about the C with middle finger thing. But the whole concept of shifting the bottom left keys one key to the left? And the name, "Angle Mod", did that come later?  Does the concept pre-date Colemak? I imagine it would be better than the traditional system, even on a typewriter.

    Would be nice know about the origins, if they are not shrouded in mystery.

    Last edited by stevep99 (10-Jul-2018 14:44:09)

    Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

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    It was me, I believe, in late 2007. That was the Angle-ISO mod and I think I called it Angle quite early on but it was first mundanely called the "bottom half-row shift". Farkas Máté calls it the "comfort ergo" mod in PKL (2008). When I came up with it, Shai said that he considered making it an official default for ISO boards. But somehow he didn't.

    So by the time that "well known" post (which I must confess I had entirely forgotten) was written in 2012, the Angle ergo mod had been around for four years or so. But it far from predates Colemak, which was released in its finished form in 2006 (I came across it early 2007).

    The ANSI-Angle mod I don't quite remember but I suspect that Cevgar may have had a hand in it, and me.

    Cevgar came up with the Wide mod as I recall it, although others have since had the same idea independently. Cevgar has a wonderfully inquisitive and creative mind. I love some of his ideas, like the ghetto foot switch. Others are just weird but kudos to him for thinking them up and trying them out! He even tried turning the keyboard upside down.

    I made Extend as we know it in 2008, working from Fn key layouts and common sense. I implemented it myself with AHK until PKL came and rendered my implementation lacking by comparison. It's a matter of definition what constitutes Extend though, but for me it includes the ability to combo with easily reachable modifiers in addition to the nav/edit/etc keys.

    Colemak[eD] mappings are mine with very few (if any?) exceptions. I've been working on them since 2011.

    The Colemak[eD] dead key mappings are part mine, part taken from the Bépo Project. Those guys have made a great contribution to the dead key ecosystem. :-)

    Tarmak was my brainchild, but the current version of it was made with the great help of several others including Cevgar and Karl Nordstrom.

    In my Big Bag posts, I've included some bits of history here and there should you be interested in knowing more. :-)

    Last edited by DreymaR (11-Jul-2018 20:26:06)

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    Thanks, I figured the Angle Mod must have arisen in the early days of Colemak but wasn't sure. In a way though, it's surprising no-one thought of the basic idea behind it in the days of typewriters!  But then, you can tell when something is a good invention, as people tend to wander why it wasn't thought of earlier. Kudos much deserved, I'm more than happy to explicitly acknowledge it.

    Last edited by stevep99 (11-Jul-2018 13:26:56)

    Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

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    It's quite possible that someone, somewhere thought of something like it. But let's face it, if you don't publish your ideas and have a clear path to their implementation, the outcome is the same as if no one had ever thought of it. That's why so-called "intellectual property" is such tricky business and there is so much money involved in it.

    I think that intellectual property as the term is commonly used is a very broken and even harmful concept, but that's another topic altogether.

    Last edited by azuvix (11-Jul-2018 13:51:21)
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    azuvix said:

    That's why so-called "intellectual property" is such tricky business and there is so much money involved in it.

    Must be why lawyers love it so much!

    Last edited by stevep99 (11-Jul-2018 13:53:46)

    Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

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    Hey, if I were making bank from slapping a letter on someone's brand name, giving arbitrary interpretations on something no one really understands, and getting paid for cases that would eventually be settled out of court anyway, I'd be happy as a clam too. :P

    Last edited by azuvix (11-Jul-2018 13:59:28)
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    I've heard that much modern art can be summarized in the following dialogue:
    – Hey, I could've made that!
    – Yeah, but you didn't.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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    Remind me to fill some balloons with ink, tape them to a canvas, and toss darts at it this evening. I've been needing some extra cash.

    Last edited by azuvix (11-Jul-2018 19:40:08)
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    I always thought Angle Mod was a good idea using standard Colemak. I never even tried it, because it was nonstandard.

    Even the switch to DH was difficult primarily because of it, but after like 2 days of it, honestly it was amazing.

    These days the worst part of switching back to Qwerty, when I have to of course, is having to type the 'c' key with standard fingering or with my index finger.
    I can never even decide where to put my fingers on the bottom row at that point, because I don't want to mess up my technique for when I use ColemakDH again.

    ColemakDH typist

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    I had such ideas of following standards at first, thinking that if I will use standard fingering it will help me somehow. But then I thought that In the eyes of qwerty users we are  all rebels just  because we moved alphas around, and it is no matter after that what we will use for inputting data, standard keyboard, non-standard keyboard, or crystal ball.
    After realizing that, I stopped worrying, retire my standard keyboards, and departured in the land of alternative keyboards, where keys are moved to the fingers, not fingers to the keys. I'm using them everywhere now, including laptop.

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    I really like that point. :) Yes, the only benefit that I can see in sticking to a "standard" (whatever that means in this community!) is that a vanilla Colemak layout on GNU/Linux or OS X is instantly usable. But that argument really falls apart when you don't share a keyboard and Colemak with anybody. You can always carry the layout with you for most cases.

    There is pretty much only one situation that I can see having a hard time on, and that is with the Red Hat certification exams. They'll let you use Colemak, sure, but Colemak-DH may be pushing it. But having said that, I think it would take no time at all if you practiced on vanilla Colemak and eventually went DH. It's probably far easier to go back to unaltered Colemak than it is to go back to QWERTY!

    And as a side note, "vanilla Colemak" sounds like a refreshing drink. I get thirsty almost every time I type it.

    Last edited by azuvix (12-Jul-2018 06:30:43)
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    And we are the dreamers of dreams.
    ~ Arthur O'Shaughnessy

    Last edited by DreymaR (12-Jul-2018 15:56:44)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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    Last week I borrowed my friend's Linux laptop.

    Open terminal; xmodmap "Dreymar's file".

    That does the trick on anything not running Wayland, though the command takes like 4 seconds to execute.
    It's about as easy as the instant 'setxbmap colemak'. Reverting it is the same 'setxkbmap us'.

    I've already made a post on hassles Wayland causes.

    --

    OS X still requires going into settings (i.e. an admin password), making it equivalent to running an executable on Windows, like downloading bit.ly/clk or ryanheise.com/colemak.exe

    For Windows I always use AutoHotKey or PKL. In most cases, people don't want you installing things on their stuff. Running something is okay though. Especially if you explain it's a script.

    --

    I agree when it comes to standards, for normies; Colemak, ColemakDH, Dvorak, Dvorak switching U and I, your momma's custom layout, and anything in between are all the same. Once you deviate slightly, you're a freakin weirdo.

    But standards matter, when it comes to using some random setup and you have to negotiate your input method with a friend, admin or even your boss.

    I know that back when I used Colemak I felt supremely confident I could use it at work regardless of the OS.
    OS X is essentially the hardest to deal with because installing keylayout files or KarabinerElements are equivalently awful, permission-wise.

    Back in the pure Colemak days, especially once Lion came out, it was just flipping a switch.

    ColemakDH feels like working in a kitchen and having a personal knife that I always have to bring, whereas Colemak was just the nicest knife already available.
    This knife is still better, but you can't take it everywhere.

    ColemakDH typist

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    juice43 said:

    But standards matter, when it comes to using some random setup and you have to negotiate your input method with a friend, admin or even your boss.

    I know that back when I used Colemak I felt supremely confident I could use it at work regardless of the OS.
    OS X is essentially the hardest to deal with because installing keylayout files or KarabinerElements are equivalently awful, permission-wise.

    Back in the pure Colemak days, especially once Lion came out, it was just flipping a switch.

    ColemakDH feels like working in a kitchen and having a personal knife that I always have to bring, whereas Colemak was just the nicest knife already available.
    This knife is still better, but you can't take it everywhere.

    I have the standard keyboard by my desk which I pull out when "normies" need to use my computer. But I also need to pull out a mouse, because I'm using trackball :)
    Regarding "bringing a personal knife", this is exactly what I'm doing. What is wrong with that? Say if technician coming to your house, he is bringing his own screwdriver but not using yours one, why when it comes to computers, we suppose it always should be used with attached periphery?
    And for poor Windows users switching to Colemak is not "just flipping a switch" and will not be that in observable future.

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    Open IE. Ctrl + L. Type bit.ly/clk . Click 'Download', 'Run'. Colemak.

    It really is flipping a switch dude, but not gonna say more than that. Thank Ryan Heise for hosting the file. I shortened his link back in '08.

    Though I have an equivalent AHK.exe for ColemakDH, I don't have such a convenient URL for it. It's in my email/thumbdrive instead.

    --

    I totally agree with you. There is nothing wrong with defying standards. In fact, it should be encouraged! It would be easier to defy them in the future!

    But it is still a hassle to be different. To further the analogy, sometimes you have your knife on you and they still force you to use the dull, rusty butterknife from 1873.

    I still use ColemakDH whenever I can (like right now), because I love it, and I too will "bring my personal knife" wherever I go.

    Last edited by juice43 (12-Jul-2018 22:50:47)

    ColemakDH typist

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    And frankly, I don't know that I would think much of a chef that doesn't have preferences and doesn't keep their own preferred equipment in good repair. I would marvel at one who has developed their skills to perfection and always has a knife with the right weighting and size for them, a razor-sharp blade, and of a quality that will amplify their abilities.

    I guess I'm saying that, when you learn and grow with the layout and equipment best suited to you, you're far more likely to get your desired results.

    It is an unskilled worker who blames his tools, but a highly skilled worker who maximizes them.

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    Yeah, I forgot about that Ryan Heise's utility. My company through a tons of precautions though before finally allowing me to run the exe from this link. Anyway, that just means that the similar thing can be done for Colemak-DH.

    juice43 said:

    But it is still a hassle to be different. To further the analogy, sometimes you have your knife on you and they still force you to use the dull, rusty butterknife from 1873.

    You know, your analogy is absolutely correct for me! Because I'm carrying around not a flash drive, but a mechanical programmable keyboard with physical layout that works best for me, with switches and keycaps that I like. After that, the average office Dell or HP keyboard with mushy keys and slimy keycaps feels exactly like a rusty butternife. :)

    Last edited by ckofy (13-Jul-2018 19:39:08)
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    ckofy said:

    After that, the average office Dell or HP keyboard with mushy keys and slimy keycaps feels exactly like a rusty butternife. :)

    Believe me, I'm working in a place that packages meat, so you can think how good the industry keyboards there is, in addition to having to be watertight, they are usually smudget with a thick layer of fat, blood and meat rests, after trying to work on those keyboards for a while almost anything is a blessing.

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    sotolf said:
    ckofy said:

    After that, the average office Dell or HP keyboard with mushy keys and slimy keycaps feels exactly like a rusty butternife. :)

    Believe me, I'm working in a place that packages meat, so you can think how good the industry keyboards there is, in addition to having to be watertight, they are usually smudget with a thick layer of fat, blood and meat rests, after trying to work on those keyboards for a while almost anything is a blessing.

    OMG, my condolences. I hope you do not need to type essays on these keyboards.

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    ckofy said:
    sotolf said:

    Believe me, I'm working in a place that packages meat, so you can think how good the industry keyboards there is, in addition to having to be watertight, they are usually smudget with a thick layer of fat, blood and meat rests, after trying to work on those keyboards for a while almost anything is a blessing.

    OMG, my condolences. I hope you do not need to type essays on these keyboards.

    Nono, mostly it's just small stuff when I'm there, mostly just pinging a server or change a printer or something, but as often as I can I'm doing it with vnc, then I don't have to change into the whole hygiene clothing and stuff as well, so luckily it's not that often ;)

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