• You are not logged in.

    ColemakDH Converter (otherwise using vanilla)

    • Started by juice43
    • 19 Replies:
    • Reputation: 1
    • From: New York, New York
    • Registered: 22-Nov-2008
    • Posts: 125

    Hello all,

    It's been a while since I made a post.

    I'm currently in a long-term situation where I'm forced to use others' computers, where I cannot run, install or entertain using third-party layouts or executables. The penalty is potentialy losing privileges or getting fired.

    --

    My solution has been to use the Colemak converter on the website.

    It kinda rocks. I do too much typing at work to merit Qwerty.

    But I still am a DH typist at heart and don't really want to go back to vanilla, because then I'm using three layouts: Qwerty in a pinch, Colemak at work (and libraries?), and ColemakDH at home.

    But I've been using vanilla in all contexts now to remedy this situation, for about a week.

    --

    Does a web ColemakDH converter exist, and if not, how can we or I make one?

    Last edited by juice43 (26-Oct-2019 01:30:06)

    Colemak typist

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 60
    • From: UK
    • Registered: 14-Apr-2014
    • Posts: 696

    Just so I'm clear, I assume we are talking about something like this, but which converts to DH rather than vanilla Colemak?

    Looking at the (public domain) source code for that, it looks pretty trivial to clone it and adjust the mappings for DH. Or use some other open source converter if you have a preference. Not sure about the handling the ISO Z though, that might be a bit tricky, but the ANSI mappings should be straightforward.

    Last edited by stevep99 (26-Oct-2019 14:58:29)

    Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 60
    • From: UK
    • Registered: 14-Apr-2014
    • Posts: 696

    I had a go at quickly knocking something up. Haven't tested it properly, but feel free to take a look. It does the ANSI variant only.

    Converter for Colemak-DH

    Last edited by stevep99 (26-Oct-2019 15:12:41)

    Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 1
    • From: New York, New York
    • Registered: 22-Nov-2008
    • Posts: 125

    Yes, stevep, I was referring to that one.

    stevep99, the converter works. Though it has a slight delay in refreshing that slows me down.

    I'm already more used to Colemak, as is, is the problem. So I couldn't really properly test it because letters (g,k,m,d,h) keep tripping me up.

    It happens especially once I use backspace. The other converter just feels a little faster. I'm between layouts and unfortunately I think this week of using Colemak has squandered my almost 100WPM rate using ColemakDH. Now I can't really type well in neither. I feel like I'm hitting about 60-70 in standard Colemak (but basically moving my fingers at 100 making tons of errors), and about 30 in DH (like an error every two words).

    The problem lies that my Qwerty has always slowly been around 65WPM if I focus, so I'm better off using that. I'm in a bit of a crux.

    Is there any way to make it refresh once backspace has been pressed, because you need to enter a letter or two for it to refresh currently? I looked at the page source and java file and had something almost identical to your setup. But I don't own a domain, and have never hosted a website. It probably would have lagged just the same.

    The backspace problem is currently the biggest source of lag.

    Last edited by juice43 (26-Oct-2019 16:34:21)

    Colemak typist

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 111
    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 4,707

    I guess you need a QUICKIE then.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 1
    • From: New York, New York
    • Registered: 22-Nov-2008
    • Posts: 125

    I think the converter may be good enough but I've screwed my DH skills.

    I'm mostly going to use Qwerty at work making sure to look down, and get used to the new converter at home, if it stays up. I'll look into writing a better refresh rate for the script if I can mess with JS.

    Worst comes to worse vanilla Colemak will always be there. It actually felt better than I remembered; it was my layout for 7.5 years!

    A QUICKIE is an option for the future if my plan is futile. As always I have to get clearance at work.

    Last edited by juice43 (26-Oct-2019 23:42:27)

    Colemak typist

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 60
    • From: UK
    • Registered: 14-Apr-2014
    • Posts: 696

    The code for the converter is shamelessly copied from the one on the Colemak site, so I don't know why there would be a difference in refresh speed. Maybe browser a optimization issue or something.

    I'll leave the converter there, but if you - or anyone else - knows how to improve the code I'm happy to accept changes.

    Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 1
    • From: New York, New York
    • Registered: 22-Nov-2008
    • Posts: 125

    I might have just been on a worse computer, or it might have been my layout switching troubles. I noticed the source was the same.

    Oh well, I just have to pick the layout (Colemak DH) I like and run with it.

    Thanks for leaving the converter up.

    Colemak typist

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 111
    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 4,707

    If you're allowed to plug in your own keyboard you should be allowed to plug in a QUICKIE. Explain to them that both use the USB HID protocol which can only send input events such as keystrokes and mouse/joystick movements, and that both are inherently capable of exactly the same things (if the keyboard is programmable). Which is to say, nothing dangerous – unless you were to program in a long sequence of dangerous code that you could've just as easily entered manually...   ̄(=⌒ᆺ⌒=) ̄

    Last edited by DreymaR (28-Oct-2019 09:45:11)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 7
    • Registered: 24-Aug-2019
    • Posts: 26
    DreymaR said:

    If you're allowed to plug in your own keyboard you should be allowed to plug in a QUICKIE.

    One problem with that that probably has been discussed before but I guess worth pointing out here: If I know IT departments and the office mindset at all, weird-looking "custom" USB devices stand a good chance of triggering the "no custom USB devices" subroutine.  In contrast, a colemak keyboard (practically, that could mean any keyboard that can be flashed with custom firmware like QMK, which I guess probably means a "mechanical keyboard"), while less luggable, stands a good chance of triggering the "ergonomics / health and safety" subroutine.
    Of course it all depends on the relationship you have with the relevant people at work, and your office culture.
    Agh I'm typing on QWERTY right now and, though my QWERTY speed is as high as it always was, *thinking* about typing shortly (a few minutes) after using Colemak plays hell with my keyboard skills now: I drop back into Colemak at random points!

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 111
    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 4,707

    Mostly it'll depend on whether the IT people know anything worthwhile about IT. Surprisingly many don't, I guess.  ⊂(;⊙д⊙)つ

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 60
    • From: UK
    • Registered: 14-Apr-2014
    • Posts: 696
    colemux said:

    triggering the "no custom USB devices" subroutine.  In contrast, a colemak keyboard (practically, that could mean any keyboard that can be flashed with custom firmware like QMK, which I guess probably means a "mechanical keyboard"), while less luggable, stands a good chance of triggering the "ergonomics / health and safety" subroutine!

    This is a very good and valid point. While technically, the USB device is not really any different from the keyboard with custom firmware, I can easily see how they would look very different in the context of an organisation's workplace policies. Even in fairly technically savvy companies, the people making these kinds of decisions often don't understand the technology. If you get into a position where you have to start explaining the technical detail to someone, it's probably already too late.

    Last edited by stevep99 (06-Nov-2019 14:59:14)

    Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 1
    • From: New York, New York
    • Registered: 22-Nov-2008
    • Posts: 125

    I've switched back to normal Colemak. The hardware option was a no go.

    On Windows I'm out of luck, some of the time if I can't run on a foreign executable. Every thing else should have Colemak already installed at least.

    Qwerty and Colemak it is, I can't maintain three layouts, two of which are almost the same.

    Colemak typist

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 111
    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 4,707

    I feel your pain, friend. Do you mean that the hardware option is too costly for you? Because no sane person should allow you to plug in a keyboard but not another USB HID device. That'd just be sheer stupidity and a total lack of understanding and competence.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 1
    • From: New York, New York
    • Registered: 22-Nov-2008
    • Posts: 125

    Boss thought it would be ridiculous for me to plug in my own keyboard. We service a university and some offices, so we go to computers instead of them being brought to us most of the time.

    He said it could technically be allowed.

    Though I kind of started to develop a liking for standard Colemak after using it for a little over a week. It feels faster even though it's slightly less comfortable. On both keyboards I maintained about 90-100 wpm, but on Colemak it feels like that's not my limit.

    I used Colemak for a little over 8 years before switching so maybe that's why. It feels like coming back home in terms of where everything is. (See what I did there?) Common bigrams are a joke.

    "We must go FASTER Barry."

    Last edited by juice43 (13-Nov-2019 01:27:46)

    Colemak typist

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 2
    • Registered: 12-Oct-2017
    • Posts: 15

    It feels faster

    Vanilla Colemak should in theory be faster, because it uses the home row more. Dvorak, who spent a lot of time studying layout design (and observing people using them) concluded that home row is the place to be (Dvorak placed I and D where Colemak D and H are).

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 111
    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 4,707

    That's nonsense. Colemak-DH curls the home row, so your argument doesn't hold. Dvorak and Coleman didn't envision the possibility of this technique, so obviously their studies couldn't show what effect it might have. Since then, some of us have been thinking about the fact that our hands aren't a ruler but naturally follow a slight curve. Some ergonomic keyboards have a column stagger that reflects this curve. Colemak-DH is a way of introducing a little Curl in your typing without changing your hardware.

    Whether some typists can be faster on one or the other variant, isn't determined. Not by a long shot. So far, all we know is that some typists prefer one or the other for comfort. Curling does increase the distance to some keys (the QWERTY T and Y positions, where Colemak-DH has B and J) but makes other keys more accessible and some n-grams like the common THE nicer, and it isn't easy to evaluate the total effect it has on speed.

    Last edited by DreymaR (14-Nov-2019 10:20:53)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 60
    • From: UK
    • Registered: 14-Apr-2014
    • Posts: 696

    The "standard" fingering scheme for staggered boards has a lot to answer for:
    Z_with_pinky.png


    But as we know, this makes much more sense:
    Z_with_ring.png


    I guess that traditional one is so ingrained in people's minds that hardly anyone stops to question it, despite it being so obviously flawed.

    Last edited by stevep99 (14-Nov-2019 14:40:32)

    Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 111
    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 4,707

    Why bring the Angle Cheat into this, SteveP? With Colemak, it leads to a frequent CT same-finger bigram and plays poorly with the transition to ortho boards. I see no reason to promote that over a proper Angle mod?

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 60
    • From: UK
    • Registered: 14-Apr-2014
    • Posts: 696

    I just meant the fingering pattern, obviously that image just shows Qwerty.  The superiority of this fingering pattern means that, for Colemak users, the Angle Mod becomes the optimal solution.

    Last edited by stevep99 (14-Nov-2019 17:55:46)

    Using Colemak Mod-DH with some additional ergonomic keyboard mods.

    Offline
    • 0