• You are not logged in.

    Colemak FI/SWE

    • Started by Turbulenz
    • 14 Replies:
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 18-Feb-2008
    • Posts: 4

    I'm from Finland and here's solution to write finnish/swedish at least as fast as QWERTY :)

    I made this with microsoft's keyboard layout creator.

    http://picasaweb.google.fi/Ville.Sahla/ … ltilingual

    Last edited by Turbulenz (26-Feb-2008 22:32:31)
    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 114
    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 4,742

    Nice, nice. The placements of ÄÖÅ are exactly as I'd recommend.

    If I were you, I'd put the Danish/Norwegian ÆØ on AltGr plus ÄÖ. I know a few Swedish people who need to write Norwegian from time to time and they use such an arrangement.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 18-Feb-2008
    • Posts: 4
    DreymaR said:

    Nice, nice. The placements of ÄÖÅ are exactly as I'd recommend.

    If I were you, I'd put the Danish/Norwegian ÆØ on AltGr plus ÄÖ. I know a few Swedish people who need to write Norwegian from time to time and they use such an arrangement.

    Ok, I added them and more...
    Here is a link for Windows setup files
    http://www.4shared.com/file/39047000/22 … lemak.html

    Last edited by Turbulenz (27-Feb-2008 00:15:30)
    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 01-Oct-2012
    • Posts: 3

    I've made a Colemak clone: SweColemac.
    Its based on a Swedish Colemak layout for Windows by "Overcow".

    It does: Colemak A-Z, ÅÄÖ and < without any modifiers.
    Also I have included most common OS X signs such as  , ⌥ and ⌘.
    Its not perfect, in fact it has several errors in the more Ctrl + A-Z keys.

    Would love to get feedback and continue to refine this Colemak variant.

    SweColemac.PNG
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/165 … olemac.zip

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 114
    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 4,742

    I'd either mostly go with the usual Mac mappings for lv3-4/AltGr (remapped for Colemak), or you can look at my Colemak-eD for inspiration (see my Big Bag topic).

    Note that many symbols are placed mnemonically and your layout breaks that. 'ß' under 's', '∂' under 'd' etc makes perfect sense in Mac QWERTY but not anymore with your SweColemak.

    Anyways: I'd really put the 'ø' under the 'ö'. No strong reasons for having 'π' there I think? And then the 'œ' should logically be under 'o'.

    Last edited by DreymaR (02-Oct-2012 09:17:29)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 01-Oct-2012
    • Posts: 3
    DreymaR said:

    …I'd really put the 'ø' under the 'ö'. No strong reasons for having 'π' there I think? And then the 'œ' should logically be under 'o'.

    So true, I will arrange the Danish/Norwegian 'œ' and 'œ' on the more correct places in my next version. One more coherent with the Colemak 'standards'.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 114
    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 4,742

    I see now that the 'π' was under your 'ö' merely because you hadn't moved it from it's QWERTY-based 'p' position.

    You should move the lv3-4 signs corresponding to all the colemak-remapped letters to ensure they make sense. Well, not K (QWERTY N) since that one's based on position and not mnemonic.

    I still think that Colemak-eD has more usefully placed mappings. But then I made that so of course I like it... ;)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 114
    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 4,742

    [EDIT: This was an answer to a post that disappeared due to a spam filter accident. Hope the poster will be back shortly – and sorry about that!]

    Maybe it's different for Swedish these days, but for Norway it seems to me that Colemak is just as well or maybe better supported than Dvorak now. But it may be just me... ;)

    You might want to check out my signature topics (one for Linux/XKB, one for Windows/PKL). There are two things that may be of particular interest there:
    1) My suggestions for Swedish/Finnish layouts depending on whether you're ready to switch symbol placements or not (I'm using the Norwegian "Universal Symbols" variant myself, with øæå on the VK_102/[] keys and those keys in the middle via a WideAngle ergonomic mod).
    2) The Tarmak transitional layouts that allow you to learn Colemak 3–4 keys at a time (or more, should you wish larger steps) to preserve typing efficiency while learning and break the learning up into manageable pieces. Didn't use it myself since I came up with it after I already knew Colemak, but some users seem very happy with it!

    As for the sticker thing: Sure, do whatever suits you. I don't feel the need for Colemak markings anymore, but I do switch around the keyboard keys to show the WideAngle mod if I can. Then I can keep the keyboard in that mod when QWERTY users want to type on it too.

    Last edited by DreymaR (19-Jun-2013 09:23:18)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 19-Jun-2013
    • Posts: 2

    Thanks DreymaR for pointing out I was banned due to a spam error. Saw your reply (and mine missing) before I tried to log in. Had I just noticed that all three posts and my account was deleted I would probably have left quickly.

    I appreciate the tips. I do think I'll make the change in one go. I even notice my typing on the Android Dvorak keyboard gets faster with each SMS since I have some memory of where the keys are. The suggestion to change capslock with backspace seems great, I'm quite sure I'll use that. I like how Dvorak has the wovels in one place as it helps me to remember.

    I'll read through your links once I feel a bit better. (Currently recuperating from brainsurgery :()

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 04-Apr-2013
    • Posts: 538

    If you want to learn in that manner, here's an old thread I have describing it.

    You should also consider mapping caps to ctrl, assuming colemak ofc (but even dvorak emacs users would still say so).

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 114
    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 4,742

    Welcome back! Hope you recuperate well! If you end up *not* choosing Colemak I'll blame it on bad surgery. ;)

    For touch screens I think MessagEase is the hottest option now. It's fast and powerful and the world speed record holder uses it to type up to 84 WPM; others are close to matching that speed and a couple of Colemakistas are also in the 60–70 WPM range.

    As for the Caps key, again I point to the sig topics – this time to the all-powerful Extend mod!

    Last edited by DreymaR (20-Jun-2013 10:39:06)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 19-Jun-2013
    • Posts: 2

    Moving to colemak has been much slower than anticipated. For some reason I think writing text messages with colemak on my Android is slower than using Dvorak, even though both systems were new to me. Kind of weird actually. I think quickly knowing where the vowels were helped me out to figure out the Dvorak keyboard faster.

    I downloaded a bunch of software for my Mac so that I could relabel my keys with stickers, however it seems like changing the CapsLock key to backspace seems to be quite tricky, i.e. its not enough to just select colemak as a keyboard layout but I'd need a bunch of software for that.

    It seems to be equally difficult for the PC, I mean I saw the program you linked to which was based on AHK. I do know AHK and have used it years ago, but using some utitility that hasn't been updated in years might be a bit sketchy on business laptops. I mean even if I don't need admin rights to install those it might still be icky to use custom software on clients computers. Although I suppose AHK should be fairly safe?

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 0
    • Registered: 04-Apr-2013
    • Posts: 538
    dslectic2 said:

    For some reason I think writing text messages with colemak on my Android is slower than using Dvorak

    That's because it probably is.  Colemak has a heavy emphasis on rolls, which translates to subsequently pressing a lot of nearby keys with the same finger.  Dvorak has high hand-alternation, which translates to high thumb-alternation, much better for phones.

    By any measure, however, scaling a typewriter keyboard onto a touchscreen doesn't make a whole lot of sense. When we last discussed it, we seem to have agreed on messagease as the most optimized input method so far.

    Last edited by lalop (22-Jul-2013 10:31:48)
    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 1
    • From: Malmö, Sweden
    • Registered: 10-Sep-2012
    • Posts: 122
    dslectic2 said:

    It seems to be equally difficult for the PC, I mean I saw the program you linked to which was based on AHK. I do know AHK and have used it years ago, but using some utitility that hasn't been updated in years might be a bit sketchy on business laptops. I mean even if I don't need admin rights to install those it might still be icky to use custom software on clients computers. Although I suppose AHK should be fairly safe?

    For windows, go ahead and install the proper version.
    Yes, AHK feels like a hack and isn't always a piece of cake, but it and PKL are still the best quick fix from a thumb drive on someone else’s PC.

    Last edited by vaskozl (23-Jul-2013 23:09:00)

    Posted without the aid of a rodent.

    Offline
    • 0
    • Reputation: 114
    • From: Oslo, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 4,742

    For Android, use MessagEase. In the thread Lalop links to, I presented a Colemak-like and a QWERTY-like way of mapping the secondary letters in ME. If you want a layout that's easier to learn you might consider those.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

    Offline
    • 0