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At 120+ WPM on QWERTY, is it worth the switch to Colemak?

  • Started by esplanade
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  • Registered: 15-Jun-2008
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Because I type at 120WPM on QWERTY and am attempting the switchover to Colemak.

I've been using QWERTY for about 7-8 years, and, at the moment, I touch-type at over 120WPM based on various online tests.  I've poked through some threads and noticed that most people on Colemak seem to be typing at around 70WPM... almost half of what I'm doing!

Is it worth the switch?  The things that appeal to me most about Colemak are (a) reduced wrist strain (I use instant messengers a lot, and I'm an avid blogger), (b) the whole geek factor with being able to say, you know, "Over the summer, I rewired my brain and learned a new keyboard layout.", (c) the fact that it seems more balanced than Dvorak, and (d) it's much more multilingual than Dvorak (learning a new Dvorak layout for Spanish? Being forced to revert back to QWERTY for Chinese and Japanese?  Nooo thanks!).

I'm going to be a college freshman in the fall, and I know I'm going to have some killer papers, so (a) is appealing to me even more... that and we're all required to have laptops, so no ergonomic keyboards for me!

Has anyone been in a similar situation?  Success stories?  Cease attempts now?  Thanks in advance for any and all input!

Edit: Right, I should post regarding progress... I've been training for maybe 4-5 hours and have come up with something like 14WPM on hi-games... lol.

PS: Is there any way to change the title of the thread?  :/

Last edited by esplanade (15-Jun-2008 09:45:23)
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Colemak is noticeably more comfortable than qwerty, but it is not faster. If you are worried about injury then a switch is worthwhile.

Most people are able to match their typing speeds fairly quickly. Since you are a high-performance qwerty typist, watch out for what happened to James McKay (jammycakes here at the forums). He was unable to match his previous qwerty speeds after several months of practice. Your mileage may vary.

Last edited by tomlu (15-Jun-2008 10:34:25)
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  • From: Viken, Norway
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If you're determined I'm sure it can be done. See for instance Ryan Heise's story: https://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?id=267

On Ryan's pages you'll also find his typing game that I still play (see my sig!) ... although it's been a while since my score was among the top 100 now.

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esplanade said:

I've poked through some threads and noticed that most people on Colemak seem to be typing at around 70WPM... almost half of what I'm doing!

Most people on Qwerty seem to be typing at around 40 WPM... so Qwerty can't be any good either? :-)

Speed isn't everything.  If you don't want to lose your current speed (120 wpm is good!) it's better not to switch at all because you *will* have to relearn everything and it *will* take some time.

If on the other hand, you want to lose pain, and gain more comfort and accuracy, Colemak may be something for you.

Last edited by ghen (15-Jun-2008 16:13:03)
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I kinda doubt that someone that types over 120 wpm on Qwerty would actually end up switching.   You gained that speed starting when you were 10 years old. Your brain was quite different then.  Such a high speed would indicates you have adapted to Qwerty very well and you picked up some tricks along the way.
It's not a given that any of those tricks will be of much use with Colemak, going faster at Colemak requires learning new tricks IMO.

Unless you have the discipline to maintain both like Ryan did, I expect the first time you have a situation where you have no choice but Qwerty you will be incredibly frustrated.

There seems to be a theme lately that those who start Colemak after being very fast at Qwerty just don't see enough reasons to deal with the problems of not using the market dominant layout.

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Hmm, well, I really have nothing to do this summer, so this is shaping up to be a nice boredom killer.  :)

Two days after switching cold turkey, my QWERTY speed has dropped to 111, and my Colemak speed is 23.

The thing I've noticed about Colemak is that it's forcing me to type correctly.  When I type in QWERTY, I don't use either pinky, except for Shift and Backspace, and my ring fingers take over for them.  My middle finger, in turn, often covers many ring finger keys.  Learning Colemak, meanwhile, forces me to properly use my fingers, leading to a much more graceful, relaxed feel.

I'm definitely liking Colemak so far.  Hopefully I, too, can reach 100 in 30 days!

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Best of luck with your attempt!

I too, am happy that my switch has made me type more correctly. In the process of switching I've started using both Shift keys instead of almost exclusively the left-hand one, for instance. Several of these improvements in style have made me temporarily slower, but I'm feeling very good about them and believe they'll make me faster over time. For now, they just feel better.

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esplanade said:

The thing I've noticed about Colemak is that it's forcing me to type correctly.  When I type in QWERTY, I don't use either pinky, except for Shift and Backspace, and my ring fingers take over for them.  My middle finger, in turn, often covers many ring finger keys.  Learning Colemak, meanwhile, forces me to properly use my fingers, leading to a much more graceful, relaxed feel.

That was my observation, too.  While I've finally caught up with my old Qwerty speed in the meanwhile, I don't regard speed as the main benefit (anymore).  Correct typing style, and the vastly increased accuracy and comfort that followed from it are now the main benefits to me.

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Day 2 of Colemak, and I'm hovering around 27-30 WPM.  Additionally, I no longer need my virtual diagram of the keyboard open.  :D I still have occasional QWERTY reflexes, but things look good.  Still can't hit the colon correctly on the first try for the life of me, though...!

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esplanade said:

Because I type at 120WPM on QWERTY and am attempting the switchover to Colemak.

I've been using QWERTY for about 7-8 years, and, at the moment, I touch-type at over 120WPM based on various online tests.  I've poked through some threads and noticed that most people on Colemak seem to be typing at around 70WPM... almost half of what I'm doing!

The average typist does 40 WPM, and if you graph average typing speed it's a bell curve, but there's a sharp drop off at 70 WPM. (Wish I had a source...I was looking at this just a few days ago and now I can't find it.) I think most people on this forum type 70 WPM or so because alternative layouts look better to fast typists.

I think you should probably switch. At those speeds you will eventually have wrist problems I think. You should be able to regain that speed, though it may take a while. Also if you practice QWERTY every day it is possible to stay at almost the same QWERTY speed. I've actually increased my QWERTY speed over the past month by practicing about 10 minutes a day, once every two or three days or whenever I remember to. It's still lower than what it originally was though.

Also you should switch because someday, they will teach Colemak to children in typing class, and when you convert to Colemak, that brings us one step closer to this dream. Do it for the sake of the world!!

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So today's my fourth day of Colemak, and I'm at 37 WPM.  However, I noticed something really strange--my QWERTY speed suddenly dropped to 26 WPM.  Normally, when I practice QWERTY, I have about 30 seconds of confused QWERmak-lovechild flailing, but, today, it persisted across all four tests.  I had to look at the board.  I wonder if it'll be a persistent effect; others didn't seem to have this problem...

...although, I have a feeling that you might not be able to surpass your qwerty record mainly because of your more efficient alternate fingering techniques.

Yeah, that's true... but I find that Colemak leads itself to much smoother finger rolls (I love typing "friends"!), which I didn't get much of in QWERTY.  Hmm.

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No, the effect is not persistent.

And of course you'll eventually develop just as effective techniques with Colemak as the ones you have with QWERTY today. It just takes time.

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I type QWERTY at work and Colemak everywhere else (although neither at 120 or even 70 WPM, sadly), and I also went through a bit of a bad time for my ability to type QWERTY while I was learning Colemak... but only while I was learning. Once I was pretty solid with Colemak, my QWERTY speed came back to me again. I think it's just the shock of learning a new layout spilling over every time you sit at the keyboard that does it, but once you are confident with Colemak, it passes.

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That's interesting, Korivak.

When you start typing in either Colemak or Qwerty again after having used the other layout, for how long are you "confused" enough to make a lot of typo's?  And do you still make typo's once you've been using a layout for a few minutes?

I'm interested because I made no attempt at all to maintain my Qwerty skills, and I'm a real hunt'n pecker now with Qwerty (but I use it very rarely and usually only for a few sentences or commands).

I do notice though that my Qwerty muscle memory didn't completely disappear when I have to type when I'm very tired.  Then somehow it all seems to come back and take over from Colemak, which confuses me a lot and causes me to make lots of typo's.  I should just go to bed in such situations... :-)

Perhaps maintaining two keyboard layouts is easier if you "tie" them to particular keyboards, computers or environments (eg. home = Colemak, office = Qwerty).

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It's all about context, I find. When I'm using one of the terminals at work, that's a QWERTY task. When I'm browsing or writing at home on one of the Macs, that's a Colemak task (both have keyboards with the keycaps swapped, too). When I'm using my gaming PC, I have a separate QWERTY keyboard for that (not that I touch type per se in games).

The only tricky part is that my Mac mini and my gaming PC share the same screen using a KVM switch (or, if you want to be technical about it, a _VM switch, being that there are the two different keyboards), but even there the purpose, OS and physical keyboard are all different enough to give a sense of context.

It's not perfect (I still try to use Caps Lock to erase mistakes sometimes, for example), but it works pretty well. The only keyboard in my life that really messes me up now is the one on the scan guns at work... it's alphabetical, which drives me crazy (I'm not a heavy cell phone user, by the way).

Actually, that's a good example... anyone that can easily SMS on a non-QWERTY phone already knows two wildly different layouts, but they are divided perfectly by context -- so much so that no one even notices.

Last edited by Korivak (18-Jun-2008 21:31:13)
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Makes perfect sense to me, esp. the phone/sms example!

The numeric keypads on a computer keyboard (or a calculator) and a phone are different (upside down), too btw.

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I noticed that too. I spend more time doing ten key at work than I spend dialling phones, yet I can still use a phone without switching gears.

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Huh.  I think that, at the expense of my ability to type in QWERTY (down now to an abysmal 22 WPM, from 114 or so), I've made rapid advances in Colemak, in which I've been typing, IMing, Facebooking, etc.  I'm now at a high of 55 WPM (average of three tests at 49 WPM) after 6 days.

I'm hoping that my muscle memory remains over my three-day vacation from the computer, though.  I'm hoping my speed doesn't drop! Lol.

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esplanade said:

I'm hoping that my muscle memory remains over my three-day vacation from the computer, though.  I'm hoping my speed doesn't drop! Lol.

I noticed that a one week vacation was actually productive while learning Colemak!  It seemed to help me forget Qwerty, and Colemak was still fresh in my mind...

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Day 10 and I'm at 63 WPM.  I almost plateaued at 50 WPM, but my friend encouraged me to just keep working at it, telling me that it was all just a mental block, and I jumped to 60 WPM.  Now I'm hoping that I'm not plateauing at 60 ;) My progress is definitely slowing down, though.  And my QWERTY speed has been staying consistently in the 20-30 WPM range.  Hmm.

I'm definitely liking the comfort of the Colemak keyboard, and how it seems much smaller than the QWERTY keyboard, because my fingers aren't flying all over the place like before.  I'm noticing that I still commonly switch the R and S keys, as well as the E and I keys, and have difficulty with the G and J keys, but that's probably just me.

Thanks to Shai for creating this lovely layout! :D

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The R-S problem seems to be the most common one for new Colemak users and I've seen the E-I and G-J mentioned before, so it's probably not just you!

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I also still have the R-S and E-I problems, although much more rarely now than I did while learning the layout.

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esplanade, it's been a month or so since you last posted.

I'm wondering if I should make the switch, and this thread has beeh fascinating... How's it going now?

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ezuk said:

I'm wondering if I should make the switch

You should. Period.

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Well, I'm currently nearing the end of 30 days, and I hit 92 the other day.  So, I'd say that it's going pretty well ;D

Definitely make the switch!  The only thing is the inconvenience when using other computers... and when my friends don't understand my keymashing.  In QWERTY, if they're excited, they say "alskfjda;sjglahsglakjfa;kflj", while, in Colemak, I say "airsetnaoerdhnoahrt".  This can be easily remedied by switching to QWERTY, if necessary, lol.

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