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    Wrist/forearm pain using colemak?

    • Started by mousse
    • 6 Replies:
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    • Registered: 07-Aug-2008
    • Posts: 4

    I have been practicing my typing a lot recently and I am developing soreness in my right wrist area. It's actually between my wrist and forearm possibly because of all the combos and rolls. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm thinking about getting a new keyboard but there are so many choices that I don't know which would be good for Colemak users.

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    • From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
    • Registered: 11-Jun-2007
    • Posts: 86

    I experienced this quite a lot with both Dvorak and Colemak on my laptop, which is a large part of the reason why I switched back to qwerty. I think it's not so much the combos and rolls as the fact that your wrists are forced closer together because of the focus on the home row. On a conventional flat keyboard, I find this very awkward and uncomfortable.

    If you want to stick with Colemak, get a split ergonomic keyboard such as the Microsoft Natural Ergo 4000.

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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
    • Posts: 5,343

    I should think that it isn't as much a matter of the proximity of the hands as it is the unnatural angle of the wrists caused by this proximity. I use a 105(102)-key board and put the ZXCVB one key to the left which I feel greatly aids the left wrist's angle. I have no problems and feel comfortable, at least.

    If you have the chance to get an angled, curved and/or maybe most importantly non-staggered keyboard, however - by all means, it should be good for you.

    Your soreness, however, in all likelihood mainly stems from overdoing it with a new layout. You'll be tense because you're concentrating and you'll be prone to too long practice sessions. Make sure you work out all of the arms including your shoulders - pushups and shadow boxing should be great - and shake loose a lot. And be patient.

    I got a CTS-like problem a few years ago, and the solution for me was a ergophysiotherapeutic training regime adapted to my physique by a specialist. The training increased the strength and circulation of my wrists, arms and shoulder areas, and the results were simply amazing! I haven't had any trouble after that, really (apart from a tension problem in one shoulder that came after I broke my collarbone - still working on that).

    Last edited by DreymaR (20-Aug-2008 09:43:17)

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
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    • Registered: 06-Aug-2008
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    I agree with DreymaR - I'm noticing same pain that sounds just like what you're describing, and I think it's just from the subconscious tension of a new layout.

    The same thing happens with the piano. Sometimes on a new song, I'll feel cramped and my arms/wrists will feel a little sore, even sometimes if it's slower or easier than what I'm used to. But when I become a bit more comfortable with it, I relax more and the pain goes away. It isn't conscious and the tension is barely detectable until the pain begins to build in your wrists. It's just important not to push through those times and take it easy while your muscle memory catches up each night as you sleep! I sprained my wrists twice last year - each one at different times, because I was pushing myself too quickly on songs before I had become relaxed and comfortable with the pieces.

    The proximity probably contributes too if you're bending your wrists, but if Qwerty didn't cause you pain, it's probably just adjusting...although a split keyboard is always nice! You might like a Typematrix...I have one and it has a great feel to it and a nice, wide split. However, some of the extra keys like modifiers and symbols are awkwardly placed, so I'm waiting for the new models to come out...soon soon!

    Either way, good luck to both of us ^_^
    [chloe]

    Last edited by bunnyfly (20-Aug-2008 11:14:53)
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    • Registered: 07-Aug-2007
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    The middle two columns in colemak can cause strain, because some *moderately* common letters are placed there.  If they were more common, your fingers would be hovering there anyway.  And if they were less common, they wouldn't matter.   It's the moderateness of their frequency that hurts.

    I think it's because of a weighting assumption in the Colemak design (I've seen these weights assumed for layouts other than Colemak too, so I'm not knocking Shai) where a lateral movement of the index finger is considered easier than vertical movement of any finger.   I found this wasn't true for me at least.  For instance, Colemak makes b tougher for me to type than x; d tougher than f; j tougher than semicolon; and g tougher than p.  In all these twosomes, the first letter is significantly more frequent than the second.  The following modification may be easier on your hands:

    q w d f p ; l u y j
    a r s t g h n e i o
    z v b c x k m , . /

    (The last zvbcx is due to the late lamented Leszek, lost now to Dvorak.)

    All subjective, of course.

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    • Registered: 17-Mar-2008
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    * Myself, I think pinky vertical movement is way worse than any index finger movement.
    * g and p are practically the same frequency
    * Again, moving any of zxcv moves those shortcuts that most people like to stay put
    * Getting a non-staggered keyboard makes esp. b and j much more comfortable

    Otherwise, I agree - lateral movement, eg. d and h, isn't as comfortable as vertical movement, eg. v and m.

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    • From: Switzerland
    • Registered: 21-Aug-2007
    • Posts: 176
    Leszek said:

    ... for the right hand:

    ; l o y j
    i h n e u

    This avoids:
    'Th'  - I couldn't press without hop right shift and h - big speed penalty
    'you' - quite comfortable
    'ion' - big improvement, the original layout roll was the sore poit for me
    'en' 'on' 'eu' 'ou' - quite comfortable

    Do something to avoid the 'rat' on the left hand and it may be the very nice layout! I havent done any researh on that, but just a quick thought 'rsatg'... maybe?

    Hmm, you really don't like rolls that start outward and then change to inward (like 'ion' or 'rat' in Colemak)? Just wondering because you find 'eu' quite comfortable in the above layout; this would be 'io' in Colemak, so only the 'n' is missing to complete 'ion'. And the 'o' to 'n' transition is an inward roll, which most people find more comfortable than outward rolls.

    Personally I find 'on' the above layout ('ue' in Colemak) above much worse (same finger).

    Oh well, to each his own... :)

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