I nearly resigned when I got RSI like pain by using colemak. Time passed, pain has gone and I did another try. During the break I learned qwerty, but typed on Dvorak at work.

I have interesting thoughts to share.
1. Same finger is slower but not hurts which hapened to me with same hand rolls.
2. Dvorak made great research, truth is that not typing before on qwerty my right hand is much stronger than left.
3. Ocassionally switching to qwerty form colemak means just to look at the keys when typing, while switching from Dvorak means total mess and headache!

I type back again on colemak because I am working on strenghtening my left hand. Right now I am nearly at my Dvorak speed, thought it feels more difficult than Dvorak layout (and I never typed quickly - 30wpm is my natural speed).

These are example of the tools for preparing to colemak ;)

Grippers

LOL @ the Captains of Crush grippers... I have a set too. hahah.

And she has the ? next to the Q.

Personally, I don't use K4 (or any of the layouts based on colemak) because I found out that my typing style works best with a slightly modified dvorak layout. It's waaaay more comfortable for me. Especially on the ring and pinky fingers.

Additionally, K4 is more suited for those with smaller hands due to the alternate fingering required and the resulting close-proximity-combo-rolls. Which is also why K4 has a lower same-finger rate and lower row-jumping rate than colemak, without compromising comfort too much.

i was able to improve both my perceived comfort and my actual speed by doing some minor mods.

I agree, those expending all the effort to realise a theoretical improvement that may never be duplicated in real life should probably focus on other things.. lol

The girl using K4 has improved her speed a great deal, and this layout is apparently a lot more comfortable for her, so I guess in her situation, the mod was more than worth the effort.

I don't know if I agree with that. I think staggering the rows allows one to use better finger combinations to achieve greater speeds without comprimising comfort too much. Personally, I'm about 15% faster on a staggered layout than a grid layout.

Well.. again, if you're using non-standard fingering, then the stagger may indeed help some people.

However, If you're strictly using 'proper' fingering, then it'll hurt more than help, and you're better off on a grid keyboard.

...that, or he's got some WEIRD-ASS fingers. haha.

Well, sucks for you. I guess you should stick to grid keyboards. haha ;)

Depending on the word/phrase being typed and the layout used, alternate fingering can help.

Take C on the QWERTY layout. The row stagger allows it to be pressed with either the middle or the index finger, resulting in a potentially significant increase in comfort/speed when used with the surrounding keys.

The fingering for V remains the same, but, again, the row stagger helps with speed/comfort by allowing the typist to hit more combos, something that's not really feasible on grid-style keyboards.

Z and X don't really matter much since they're relatively rare, and with the stagger, there is potential for slowdown. However, with the stagger, Z can be typed with the ring finger, and X can be typed with the middle finger.  This alternate arrangement can help in certain situations.

B (and Y) are the only ones I feel get pushed into worse positions due to the stagger. However, the overall improvement in typing due to the stagger far outweighs the disadvantages.

Personally, I wish there was a mirrored stagger for the left hand to match the stagger of the right hand.

...well, that depends a lot on the person, their typing speed and the layout used (this becomes increasing obvious as your speed increases.)

With QWERTY, row stagger *definitely* helps with speed because it opens up the possibility of alternate fingering on staggered keyboards (which, in quite a few instances, is a LOT more difficult to do, if not impossible, on grid keyboards.) And since it's now feasible to use alternate fingering, the comfort aspect is improved as a result.

Think about this simple question. In the QWERTY layout, what's the fastest way for you to type "DECEASED"? ... (interestingly, there is an 80% reduction in my timing data when using alternative fingering, as opposed to using 'proper' fingering.) AND, the alternate fingering makes it EASIER and more comfortable to type that word, even when typing at much faster speeds.

UNsurprisingly, typing anything is 'surprisingly easy' when one is typing like a turtle. hehe ;)

I tried using my thumbs to press some keys in the lower row... ended up totally screwing the entire posture of the hand. lol.

If comfort is a big thing with you, and you must use a standard staggered keyboard, stick to dvorak.

cheers!

I guess it wasn't as obvious as I thought?...I don't use QWERTY, but if I did, I would use the following finger assignment to type DECEASED:

INDEX-MIDDLE, INDEX-MIDDLE-PINKY-RING-MIDDLE-INDEX.

The actual typing should be fluid, with a consistent tempo.

I utilise similar non-standard fingering on my current layout.

Another update. She just hit 90wpm and is now practically typing at the same speed as me!!!

She had me tweak the layout a bit for comfort. Now, the only 'sticking' point for her is the M key, but there is no other place to put it, so i guess that's the best it's gonna get for her, with regards to comfort.

I still cannot believe the drastic improvement she's made. In fact, I've never heard of any one surpassing his/her QWERTY speed by such a huge margin.

And for the life of me, I cannot understand how she could find it comfortable to type words like "EXACT" using this layout (the fingering she uses is LeftMiddle-RightPinky-RightRing-RightMiddle-RightIndex) ... feels hella awkward when I try it. Maybe the key to typing fast is to use smaller keyboards??....

Anyway, the "new" layout is called K5. lol.