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high speed 'qwerty' typer attempting the switch

  • Started by Rampant
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Well, my typical qwerty typing range is about 130-135 words per minute, and I am already 21, so this is going to be a very rough switch. I am off from university until January 20th, however, so I figured it is the best time to try it out. I started yesterday after my exam (so about 1:00), so I figure that I will keep track of my speed as it is each day at noon. So after one full day, I scored 23 wpm.

my 'qwerty' profile, just for proof that I am not emptily boasting http://hi-games.net/profile/1559 - not that I am trying to be impressive, but I want to show people how it might go for a very high speed typer (or another Ryan Heise, I suppose? :P) to switch. I know that a lot of people are reticent to switch because 'well I already type with this great amount of speed with quite some ease at perfect accuracy and super high speed, why would I EVER switch,' and I genuinely do expect to come out of this with less stress on my hands and typing 140-145 words per minute in a year or two, but who knows.

A couple of interesting notes:
I HAD been trying to go to dvorak, and I was at 50-55 words per minute about four days into that before exams, and I think that it has muddled my attempt at this a little bit, as I was able to be up to 30-35 words per minute on the first day of dvorak. The reason I believe that it has hurt me is that this is supposed to be easier to learn than dvorak, yet I am behind that pace already!

The keys that I mix up most commonly thus far are r and s; the next worst is e and i; and the final worst is l and y. I do not know if this is idiosyncratic to me, but I thought it was interesting.

As to my methodology, I have switched my keys, as I am on a laptop, because I believe that being able to look down and see the keys in this arrangement helps to impress it upon my mind, although it is not fin to lose the little notches on the f and j keys, but that does not mean that I have to look at my keys to type either. I can already basically remember the locations with active thought, and as the entire point to get to high speed ir to make it inactive, I think that cutting out the looking step in entirety is a mistake. So far I have not attempted to learn from any program, but by actually typing out definitions to complex words in a manner that actually requires a lot of thought. That could be another reason for less short term success than in dvorak, as there I started with that great website resource that allowed for typing lessons step by step.

A final note is that I have seen no injury thus far to my qwerty skills through dvorak and this. Maybe it will be hurt more as time goes on. I will check that to see how it is affected as I proceed.

EDIT: I guess not a final note. I wanted to say that one of the biggest reasons that I switched to colemak, besides the obvious cut and paste problems, was that dvorak puts l on the right hand pinky, which was utterly horrendous to deal with. I do miss how it felt to type combinations such as the, that, and et cetera on dvorak, but -ion, is, hen (such as in when) are early winners for me on colemak.

Last edited by Rampant (16-Dec-2008 19:30:22)

http://hi-games.net/profile/1596 (my 'colemak' profile)

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Awesome! I wish you the best of luck. And naturally, I'll be excited to see whether you'll set a new speed record for Colemak eventually...

As you may have read elsewhere, the R/S are the worst keys for newcomers to Colemak. Originally, Shai kept the S in place but that created too many other problems. In the name of optimisation, it had to move. Just be patient with it.  ;)

I learnt Dvorak fully before I made the move to Colemak. And I found that tricky too. But things like that will subside and you don't have a lot of Dvorak memory to compete with yet.

Interesting that you as a fast typist like -ion and -hen on Colemak! Many others would say that those are a liability rather than an asset, because they aren't 'rolls' but 'turns'. Trying those out, I agree with you. Combined inward/outward movement may be a problem only when it involves the weak and less independent fingers? I think that goes to show how hard it is to make a rigid ruleset for keyboard optimisation.

Last edited by DreymaR (17-Dec-2008 11:53:54)

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Isn't it interesting how one gets some inspiration to try a new keyboard layout just around exam time :)

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Ghoul said:

Isn't it interesting how one gets some inspiration to try a new keyboard layout just around exam time :)

Because they get bored? :-)

(I for one used to learn a lot of "other" stuff during exams, too)

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Actually it was more like I had to stop because of exams - very frustrating!!

Well, day 2, and up to 31-32 words per minute and I already am beginning to think that the supposition that not rearranging the keys is a better idea is correct, as I seem to type more like 25 words per minute looking...if I do get back up to 45-50 words per minute in a few more days, then I will rearrange it back to qwerty so that I can feel the ___ things on home row again.

http://hi-games.net/profile/1596 (my 'colemak' profile)

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https://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?id=188

http://hooleon.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Sc … Code=OV-HR

As you see there are a few ways of getting new bumps if you want a rearranged board. I've used the soldering iron approach a fair bit, but if that's too permanent for you then those bumper stickers  ;)  could work well I suppose. Or try the suggestion from Bee and merely dab a little glue pearl on each anchor position; use a glue that can easily be removed if you have second thoughts. Needless to say, don't spill glue into your keyboard's guts or you'll be a very sorry typist!

Last edited by DreymaR (18-Dec-2008 08:58:48)

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Well, I am up to about 50 words per minute after five days (by the hi-games.net test, although I think that test quite undercuts my speed with its format whole I am inexperienced, maybe by about 3-5). I was struggling with it mightily the first three days, and yesterday it started to click more, and today I woke up and a fundamental change had just really completed. I am starting to be able to type words without thinking about each individual letter all the time, though sometimes starting words with common but not terribly common letters like l and p is still difficult. I have been typing maybe about four hours a day (today I was stuck driving and did not at all except to test speed in the morning).

I also have been not typing in qwerty at all and I find that I rather could not type it this morning, but I do not much care at the moment...I may try to work on salvaging that so that it at least continues to be above 100 words per minute for if I ever really do need it.

http://hi-games.net/profile/1596 (my 'colemak' profile)

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What are you doing to learn these things so quickly?  I spent some 40 hours with Colemak and was only up to 35 WPM, max (and still laboring over each key).  I spent the same amount of time on Dvorak and had only learned about half the layout to 20 WPM.  I used to average 105 WPM with QWERTY on hi-games (and 120 WPM on keybr's random sentences), so it's not as if I'm a noob typist or lack dexterity.

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Well, first I would just think about every key as I typed it. That had me up to about 23 words per minute after a day. I would literally think 'w-i-l-l t-o p-o-w-e-r'. I threw myself right into typing difficult words; I do not know if that made some difference, but I wanted to try to learn by typing words without just memorizing them. I also did memorize some things, such as you, ion, that, then, than, the, and, it, is, et cetera. I did not practice any of the typing lessons until day 3 (those that were provided from this site somewhere), and even now I have only practiced up to the third lesson on those, so I am definitely not focusing on those at all. I think a great strategy is definitely to type closest to sleep, because I feel like when I wake up i is just more ingrained from having slept on it. Ultimately, you just have to memorize where the keys are and get to the point where you can start to reach for the keys without having to think about where they are!

Maybe one helpful explanation would be this: as I was struggling through each word, I would pause before each to try and think about it before typing, especially letters that I type slowly, and then I would usually type the whole word quickly. I am abandoning that more now that I am grooving into the process, but it helped me struggle through the low speeds where I was trying to improve.

Last edited by Rampant (21-Dec-2008 04:36:04)

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Sounds like knowing when to pace yourself is a good skill. I'm starting to learn that myself. Where I'd nervously hack away and make mistakes earlier I'm learning now to expect a hard bit and therefore slow down, and then pick up speed afterwards. As I don't learn errors but still maintain a better speed than before this way, I really think it's a good idea.

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Well, as of about an hour under a week, I just consistently hit 63-66 words per minute on the typing test. I am to the point that I can pretty much nail any word that does not have any letter that really throws me off (j probably being the worst, since that is, of course, the hardest reach on the keyboard and a very uncommon letter). I really do not know that I am doing anything all that special, except to focus on transforming the form of my typing to match with the level of speed that I can go...maybe it is only something that can come with already knowing how to go through those transformations, I do not know!

I have abandoned qwerty altogether. I think that if I can type this fast after a week, and presumably can hit back to about 100 within a month, then I can afford the minute to download colemak on another computer if I ever need to.

As to your accuracy note, DreymaR, if you watched my replay or anything, you would see that I tend to forsake the accuracy for a hellbent attempt at speed and backspace as much as necessary. I am sure that once I get back up to 98-99% accuracy that merely that improvement will launch me upward a good 10 words per minute, but for now, I know that the best accuracy I can get without really slowing down and thinking much more is about 90-91%.

Last edited by Rampant (22-Dec-2008 18:17:05)

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Very nice progress indeed. I guess very much of good typing is pretty much layout independent and since you have it already the switch goes fast. Or it could be your good learning habits, whether conscious or not. At any rate, grats on that progress. That speed took me over a year to reach...  :)

A previous poster told us that he had good results from training accuracy a while, then raw speed a while and so on.

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Rampant: About your rearranging of the keys, I never did that. I printed the (coloured) layout three times: One was taped to the *top* (this is important, it has to be at eye level*) of my home PC monitor, one to the top of my work PC monitor and one went where my laptop went. My thoughts were: Never look down at your keyboard when trying to learn how to touch type on a lay-out. That way you'll never be dependent on the arrangement of letters and won't be confused by any other keyboard as long as you download colemak.

I'm twenty-two, started Colemak shortly after I became twenty-one. Though granted, I never "truly" touch-typed on a qwerty (I could type blindly, but I didn't actually use all five fingers, yada yada), I didn't think the switch was that hard at all. However, it took a fair bit of self-control to do it cold-turkey, which is probably the best way in retrospect. No confusion. All in all, nice switch and I hope you get your old accuracy and speed back soon (or better ;) ).

*The reason it has to be at eye level, if you have to glance down you also glance at your keyboard, which will be confusing.

As to your "damn accuracy, we have backspace!" I take it you like the caps lock -> backspace switch then? ;-P

Oh, and I never did the typing lessons. Well, I started with some. I threw them out after a day. "Real world" typing was a better tutor in my case.

Last edited by MacGyver (23-Dec-2008 02:05:35)
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I have not used it for backspace at all - because that key is broken on my keyboard and causes crazy occurrences (highlighting entire pages, switching programs, opening my start menu). I am glad that it no longer does caps lock, because I had a very hard time keeping myself from using it.

I switched my keyboard because I wanted to be able to see the keys as I learned them. I have now switched them back and do not have to look at them at all. It helped me a lot right away to look at them; I do not think that I could possibly have etched them in my mind this quickly without some sort of visual.

As to why I am not focusing on accuracy at all, it is because I also did not do so the first time that I learned to type quickly. Maybe it is because I am an aggressive person, but focusing on accuracy did not help me make any sort of speed jump until I was well over 100 the first time - it was the key to me jumping from 120 to about 130. The keys that I most commonly mistype at present are d, g (and I mix those two up often, but not in combinations that are easily memorizable, such as -ing), and finally all of the luy range, and I either do have to slow down and think about those at times or I just mix them up. I do not know why that stretch is so hard to keep straight.

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I want to paint over my keys, for the heck of it. I just wish that Krylon Fusion paint were available here in Norway. Seems the closest I get is Caswell Inc. in the UK, and shipping might be tricky because paint is considered a 'hazardous' shipment.

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I have found that having visual aids (at least an image of the layout) helps a lot.  This goes against conventional wisdom, but if you think about it, even hunt-and-peck typists can eventually build up a decent speed (35-40 WPM).  Why?  Because they learn where the keys are!  They still have to look at the keyboard because they have no physical anchor (fingers on the home row), so have to aim their fingers every time.  But, looking at the keys doesn't prevent them from learning where those keys are!  (Looking down at physical keys may be a bit of a problem since your fingers will be covering eight of the keys, though!)

I've also found incremental typing lessons to be ineffective for me.  This was my downfall with Dvorak, I think.  I can learn some subset of the keyboard to, say, 50 WPM, but then adding one or two keys makes it feel like a completely new layout!  I actually forget where the keys I've already learned are in the context of the new keys; I'm back to 20 WPM, and don't really learn the new subset any faster than I would have if I hadn't learned the old subset, first!  So for me, it's most effective to learn the whole layout at once.

If I'd known these two things, I may have had a better experience learning Dvorak and Colemak.  Heck, I may have hit 50 WPM on Colemak the first week, too.  Ah well.  :/  I've been using my new-found knowledge to learn a different layout (which I haven't posted anything about).  The going is still fairly slow--28 WPM after three days--but since it's completely foreign to QWERTY (like Dvorak), that's pretty good, for me.

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Oh, I really would get a new keyboard and actually use the caps-lock -> backspace, to be honest. I find that I use it quite often, not only because of typos, but also because I sometimes start building a sentence and realize halfway through that I should rephrase it from a few words back. That switch alone has lowered typing stress immensely. On the other hand, I find that when I'm typing on somebody's qwerty, I inadvertently try to use caps lock as backspace, which can cause funny situations. So it may not be worth it if you still type on qwerty a lot.

Though, admittedly, I think caps lock and backspace should be switched. On every lay-out. By law. If only to prevent AOL-kiddies on IRC to have easy access to their "cruise control for cool" ;-)

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I've taken to using the "transpose/extend" function of PKL instead. If I want to backspace, I hold down CapsLock and hit the ':' key - Del lies on ']', the arrow keys on UNEI and 'O' is Enter. Doesn't sound like much of an advantage, but when you add WARS as Win/Alt/Ctrl/Shift it gets interesting since you can hit CapsLock+R+; to delete a word - or Caps+R+S+I to select the next word for instance. It looks hard when it's typed out like this, but in fact it flows well since it replicates the well known functionality of the arrow key block.

I still use the old Backspace key a lot, but the transposed one is very handy too.

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I cannot get a new keyboard, as it is a laptop! I am so quick with backspacing the old way that I am not particularly upset. The biggest problem was having to reset my hands without the notches, which is why I switched it back to qwerty layout. (I figured if I only swapped the notch keys, then it would cause confusion and that it was better to not look at all)

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Day 1    23
Day 2    32
Day 3    38
Day 4    43
Day 5    50
Day 6    62
Day 7    66
Day 8    72
Day 9    75
Day 10    76
Day 11    78
Day 12    82

My progress so far; it looks like I may be reaching some sort of plateau, but I am not quite sure yet.

One good hint that I can make is to be sure to memorize the word you as quickly as possible (and by extension also your, I suppose). Almost all the function words are nice and quick; it, and, is, the, then, there, this, that, in, but; there are all easy and obviously great to type quickly, but they are basically all very easy to type (even but is pretty easy and is by far the hardest of thees to type). You, on the other hand, is really tricky and about as common!

Last edited by Rampant (27-Dec-2008 20:26:05)

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At this rate, you should be typing 1000 WPM by the end of 2009!  :D

Yeah, Colemak's "YOU" drove me up the wall.  "WAS" wasn't much better.  I suppose every layout will have some common sequences like that, though.

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I'd use alternative fingering for 'but' (sliding the middle finger in for the 't').

You're right: 'you' and 'was' really are problematic! Never thought of that, heh. I hope I won't be having problems with those now that I've realized they are trouble...  ;)  Not really sure what to do about them other than train your weak fingers. Maybe just typing them a lot will help. you was you was you was you was you was you was you was you was you...

Hey, isn't that supposed to be 'were' up there?  :D

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"WAS" gives a point in favor of moving "S" back to its Qwerty position.  At least for me, pinky->ring is less error-prone than pinky->middle.  With pinky->middle, my ring finger has a tendency to want to push down in between, making "WARS" on Colemak.  Obviously, Shai isn't going to change the layout now, but anyway....

I think it's just something to live with.  Alternate fingerings could probably help, but going in that direction reminds me of the hi-games quote about solutions leading to more problems.  :)

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I think that was is easier with it in the position than if it were moved over and more cramped, but I could be wrong.

I doubt I will reach 1000, I just want to be back to 120 at least by February ^^;

I have not actually ever tried finger rolls before, except when I am going to make an error (this was in qwerty, that is) and would have to save myself with one. I may experiment with them more in this format for words like but and see what happens, but I get to the point where I am so strongly desiring to hit the button I am used to that I am not sure it could ever work well.

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Alternate fingerings are different from finger rolls.  Finger rolls are a consequence of the layout itself, like Qwerty's "WER".  An alternate fingering would be like typing Qwerty's "RECEDE" by using middle-ring-index-ring-middle-ring (basically, pretending the keyboard has been turned 90 degrees) instead of the standard index-middle-middle-middle-middle-middle.  Personally, I prefer consistency over speed, so have never used alternate fingerings (or even heard of them until I read this forum).

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