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    multiple layout experience

    • Started by bombadil
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    • Registered: 06-Oct-2008
    • Posts: 71

    EDIT: final post for this thread, however I put it in another section:
    https://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?pid=4763#p4763

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    Hi,

    I've come back to see what's going on here on the forum... Welcome New Colemak'ers :))

    Unfortunately I haven't practised colemak. For the past few weeks I was using primarly Dvorak but working occassionaly on others computers, to my surprise I discovered that I can touchtype Qwerty too! Reading other posts I see that probably it works the same way for others: when I started learning Dvorak, later Colemak, my earlier layout seemed to went away from muscle memory and seemed horrible alien. But surprisingly after a while, when the new layout gets burned deep in memory it is easy to use another alredy familiar layout. Similar thing happened regarding physical keyboard. When I got MS4000 it was alien, than it began to feel awesome but traditional keyboard was a pain, finally I can type on both only prefere MS4000.

    What is more surprising is however I never touchtyped qwerty proficiently it is easy for me now. I've just took the keyboard today and did some practise, I can ride on qwerty than on dvorak on hi-games with no issues. My qwerty speed almost matching dvorak. :))) Nontheless I am begginer - about 250cpm (40WPM).

    With that experience I am going to try other pair qwerty/colemak. For now I will switch to qwerty as my primary layout for a little time to master it deeper than I will try to mangle it with colemak layout. Lets see what happens. There is lots of common keys in qwerty and colemak so It may be even easier/faster. On the other hand maybe the total difference between qwerty and dvorak makes it not confusing.

    Last edited by bombadil (20-Feb-2009 23:16:01)
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    • From: Viken, Norway
    • Registered: 13-Dec-2006
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    40 WPM is somewhat better than the population average. So unless you count most people as beginners (which may or may not make sense) you're better than a beginner and qualify as at least 'average'.

    Maybe I should see whether my Dvorak skills still...? nah, can't be arsed I'm afraid.

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    Most people I kow do not even touchtype... ;)
    Ugh, begining to wonder if it is worth going because I started to mistype the dot on both qwerty and dvorak.

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    DreymaR have you tried?... ;)

    OK, it was week on qwerty. It's really interesting, at this point my long run speed on qwerty is ~35WPM 99% accuracy. I started to wonder about doing some alternative fingering for speed optimization, but whatever I tried only seemed faster - in fact I was only slower...

    The big advantage was the end of confuse "what layout is now..". Overall, developing software was easy, as easy as on Dvorak - no much difference, but I was striving away from writing comments, emails etc. Thats the truth, writing on qwerty is not so hard if you do not force yourself for speed and you use standard fingering, nontheless you do not like doing it... With Dvorak layout writing regular texts sometimes makes me even pleasure like playing a game for entretainment :-)

    Anyway, I summarized my experiences, read again through the forum, and I wonder what next... Right now I am thinking of buying a mechanical keyboard and try a week on Colemak ;-) Generally I liked Colemak layout, but I got tired writing on it, probably more than on qwerty. After reading through recent posts some enlighment come, I think that the tiredness (and even little pain) comes form bouncing my middle and ring fingers hard on the keyboard - it is because the fingers are longer and the layout makes freqent rolls with all the fingers on the home row. I think that maybe Logitech wave keybords bring a remedy for colemak. Whilst the keyboard is not split to help the wrists, the qwerty SD and KL keys are sunken on the surface.

    On the other hand I wonder why I am so nerd wasting so much time trying the layouts ;-) I can't help...

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    Well, what consider me most now is wheather I will be able to use qwerty colemak back and forth like I can use qwerty dvorak. Really amazing, just did some test (after whole week on qwerty) 40WPM, some typos in the begining but second pass was 44WPM 98% accuracy.

    Maybe it is like with languages, at some point of proficiency it do not interfere with one another. I know 3 foregin languages, englihs is one of them, they do not fight with each other - I remember the similarities and the false friends amongst them, it even help (definitely not harm) to the each language skiils.

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    Just have tried colemak today - how to ease the fatigue?! It is not the frustration of new layout, it feels just hard to type in a long run. Hmm, let's see if slow start can help, I will practise it only for a 2 minutes (on higames) each day, maybe that is the miracle how I could start qwerty without painful learning?

    Colemak is spreading everywhere, lots of people have tried it and lots says about difficult start, lots benefits from the switch and lots have abandoned it. I hope some nerd physician will make thorough research on it someday.

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    • Registered: 18-Apr-2009
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    hey all Im new to Colemak and was wondering what u all did to get used to typing with it?  When I play games I seem to get frustrated.  Also wondering how long it should take to learn if i put 1h a day and can touch type qwerty already?

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    • From: Viken, Norway
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    One game that didn't frustrate me much was Air Typer - it's fairly forgiving even for a newbie typist.

    But the main thing is just not to get frustrated! Don't expect too much, don't overdo it, don't sweat it. It'll come to you. How long it will take is highly individual; some learn to type fast in months, others take years.

    Last edited by DreymaR (23-Apr-2009 11:45:13)

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    • From: Houston, Texas
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    Air Typer is frustrating for a newbie typist on a Mac though because the "o" doesn't work.   I had to use a lot of strategy just to get to level 2.

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    lol why does the o not work?  Also what type of learning game lets u pass with out one? lol from here on I am typing for the sake of typing!  Colemak is fun!  I wish that I did not make so many typos though :(.  OK Im done.

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    If your computer isn't careful enough about how it sends its' key codes, a poorly programmed Flash app will often get befuddled. If you try the hi-games.net one I believe it'll work well enough, but if you send, say, the old OEM_1 virtual key code instead of a VK_O one from the old semicolon key there may be trouble in Air Typer.

    Using PKL on Windows XP, the 'O' key works fine. I've had trouble earlier but no more.

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    o ok that makes it more clear.  Just wondering if it is better to learn a little at a time or to just use the layout to learn it?  I realize that it probably varies by person but if any one can give their preferences I would appreciate it.

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    • From: Viken, Norway
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    Have you seen Ezuk's post?
    https://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?id=480

    Basically, I constructed a way of converting to Colemak in several steps - it's called the 'Tarmac' - and he was very pleased with it. It seems that it'll be a slower way of learning Colemak(?) but a less daunting one. You can learn just a few keys in the first step, which won't help your typing a lot but will prepare you for learning the rest. Then the whole right hand is learnt, and finally the left hand too.

    I think that if I didn't already know the Colemak I might give the Tarmac method a shot. I've tried learning changes of just a few keys (like moving the ZXCVB keys one position to the left, or moving the Scandinavian ÆØÅ around a bit, or converting the non-letter keys from a Scandinavian-based Colemak to a US-based Colemak) and I think it's much easier than learning a lot in one go.

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