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    Yet another switching experience

    • Started by dfyz
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    • Registered: 30-Aug-2009
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    A year ago, I decided I had had enough of hunting & pecking, and started to learn touch typing. I'm a programmer from Russia; my job involves typing in English and Russian, so my initial goal was to become proficient with both the Russian ЙЦУКЕН layout and the QWERTY one. It went reasonably well with ЙЦУКЕН, I doubled my average speed from 35 wpm to 70 in a few months. After that, I moved on to mastering QWERTY. That's when I realized there was a problem with it. Speed was not an issue, I've managed to attain the same speed of 65—70 wpm pretty quickly. The awkward key placement, on the other hand, was just killing me. I could type ЙЦУКЕН (which is quite an ergonomic layout) for hours without experiencing any discomfort, but with QWERTY, a mere 15 minutes of hitting the keyboard would cause significant pain.

    I was aware of Dvorak, but the need to relearn everything from scratch was scaring me. During my efforts to find something less startling, I stumbled upon colemak.com and skimmed the FAQ and the forum. The mysterious Colemak layout, which some of you may have heard about, seemed like a way to go. Very similar to QWERTY, even more ergonomic than Dvorak, installed by default in Linux, and with a very helpful and enthusiastic community. Actually, it sounded too good to be true. I dived into learning, skeptical, suspecting some sort of catch to it.

    As I went with the “cold turkey” approach, the first week proved to be a real nightmare. I didn't use any of the typing tutors; instead of that, I just printed the layout and started typing whatever I was supposed to type at work. My initial Colemak impression is summarized in a blog entry (it's in Russian, and Google Translate does a lousy job translating it; I think you can get the gist nevertheless). I did a measly 10 wpm in the very beginning (according to the awesome hi-games.net typing test) and had a very strong urge to give it up and get back to QWERTY (after all, I had some work to be done). Thank goodness I resisted the urge, and continued my experiment. After a week, I was able to go as fast as 30 wpm, although I kept making occasional mistakes here and there. It was clearly not as arduous as it seemed at first.

    Long story short, after a month or so of intense training, my average speed is 50 wpm (and this is definitely to be improved); the pain while typing has vanished completely. My typing accuracy leaves much to be desired, though, and I'm working on it.

    Oh yes, and speaking of the catch, there are two downsides (nothing major, but still):

    1) I've lost my ability to touch type QWERTY. Not that I miss it much, but sometimes Colemak is not available, and going back to hunting & pecking, even for a short while, is annoying. I know it's theoretically possible to maintain skills in multiple layouts, and maybe someday I'll try and learn them both. Any advice from those who can type QWERTY and Colemak would be greatly appreciated.
    2) The idea of mapping Caps Lock to Backspace seems terrible to me. I do use Caps Lock every now and then (for typing either a C macro or some acronym like QWERTY), and even if I didn't, it still wouldn't make much sense. I like Caps Lock the way it is.

    All in all, the transition from QWERTY to Colemak went smoothly (except for the first week). Many thanks to Shai for creating this wonderful layout!

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    FYI: I have created a Colemak-equivalent layout for the Russian alphabet, "Rulemak" (look at the end of the thread for the final layout).  It was not designed with native Russian typists in mind, just for occasional Russian typists like myself, so similarity to Colemak was the primary design goal, not creating the ultimately comfortable Cyrillic layout.  But I think it could beat йцукен since that concentrates too many common letters on the index fingers...

    I'd be interested if you could have a try and comment on my layout, you can find it here (xkb is the X11 implementation).

    Last edited by ghen (30-Aug-2009 21:21:06)
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    dfyz said:

    1) I've lost my ability to touch type QWERTY. Not that I miss it much, but sometimes Colemak is not available, and going back to hunting & pecking, even for a short while, is annoying.

    When typing on other's computers, you may find the Portable Keyboard Layout utility to be useful:

    http://pkl.sourceforge.net/

    dfyz said:

    2) The idea of mapping Caps Lock to Backspace seems terrible to me. I do use Caps Lock every now and then (for typing either a C macro or some acronym like QWERTY), and even if I didn't, it still wouldn't make much sense. I like Caps Lock the way it is.

    I'd bet you still use Backspace more than Caps Lock. What about swapping them? This Windows utility will do:

    http://www.randyrants.com/sharpkeys/

    If you use Linux, you can easily edit the Xkb or Xmodmap scripts.

    Last edited by spremino (31-Aug-2009 01:20:07)

    Dvorak typist here.  Please take my comments with a grain of salt.

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    ghen said:

    FYI: I have created a Colemak-equivalent layout for the Russian alphabet, "Rulemak" (look at the end of the thread for the final layout).

    Neat! I gave it a quick try, and it seemed very much like my first days with Colemak — plenty of mistakes and an astonishing speed of 5 wpm. It's difficult to say anything specific yet, but for some reason, similarity to Colemak doesn't really help (I wonder if it has something to do with me being a native Russian speaker).

    Some random thougths:

    1) “Э” is not in a very good position. It may not be a frequently used letter, but I like the ability to type the word «это» (which I tend to use a lot) without having to stretch my pinky too far.
    2) You way want to add the missing “Ц” to the ASCII picture of your final layout. I had a hard time finding it.
    3) Could you elaborate on what's wrong with placing the common letters on the index fingers? It's not entirely obvious to me.
    4) There exists the DICTOR layout. The authors claim it to be more optimal than ЙЦУКЕН. I haven't tried it, though.

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    spremino said:

    When typing on other's computers, you may find the Portable Keyboard Layout utility to be useful

    Thanks, it looks like a very useful tool! I'll try it next time I need to type QWERTY on coworker's computer.

    spremino said:

    I'd bet you still use Backspace more than Caps Lock. What about swapping them?

    That was actually the first thing I tried. Didn't work out for me. I still was confusing them after 2 days and finally decided it wasn't worth the effort.

    Last edited by dfyz (31-Aug-2009 22:35:14)
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    dfyz said:

    Neat! I gave it a quick try, and it seemed very much like my first days with Colemak — plenty of mistakes and an astonishing speed of 5 wpm. It's difficult to say anything specific yet, but for some reason, similarity to Colemak doesn't really help (I wonder if it has something to do with me being a native Russian speaker).

    Sure, it's mainly useful for those with Colemak as their primary layout, who type Russian occasionally (like me).  But thanks for your feedback, it's useful for me!

    1) “Э” is not in a very good position. It may not be a frequently used letter, but I like the ability to type the word «это» (which I tend to use a lot) without having to stretch my pinky too far.

    Good point.  However, on many European keyboards (as opposed to the American layout displayed in my diagram), that key is between the quote (ь on rulemak, \ on йцукен) and Enter keys, instead of above the Enter key (the Enter key has a different shape).  Makes it a much easier reach already.

    2) You way want to add the missing “Ц” to the ASCII picture of your final layout. I had a hard time finding it.

    Oops, it's on "C".  Fixed now.

    3) Could you elaborate on what's wrong with placing the common letters on the index fingers? It's not entirely obvious to me.

    Lot of same-finger digraphs (ie. typing two consecutive letters with the same finger, slows you down a lot), which is what Colemak very much avoids (instead it encourages "rolls", consecutive letters typed with different fingers in a single movement, like "arst"), and frequent letters (е, н, с, и, т) on the top and bottom rows.

    4) There exists the DICTOR layout. The authors claim it to be more optimal than ЙЦУКЕН. I haven't tried it, though.

    Thanks, I'll have a look.  But apart from the diagram, there's no explanation of why the keys were placed this way?

    Last edited by ghen (01-Sep-2009 08:23:40)
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    ghen said:

    Thanks, I'll have a look.  But apart from the diagram, there's no explanation of why the keys were placed this way?

    Actually, yes, there is. The main site of the layout is down, apparently, but Google has saved the relevant page in its cache. What they did was they prepared a corpus of Russian texts (it remains unclear where they were taken from) and tried to come up with a layout that would be optimal with respect to certain parameters. In particular, a layout would be penalized for each sequence of consecutive letters pressed with the same finger (they favor the “rolls”, as you call them).

    I think it would be interesting to compare Rulemak, ЙЦУКЕН and DIKTOR (turns out it's spelled with a “K”) according to carpalx typing effort model. It's kind of surprising that ЙЦУКЕН it not as ergonomic as it appeared to be and I'd like to find out how bad it is compared to DIKTOR and Rulemak. I'll probably do it this weekend.

    P.S. As it is the “Experiences” forum, I'd like to add something about my Colemak experiences: I have reached an average speed of 55 wpm. My ultimate goal is to type 70 wpm by the end of September. :)

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    dfyz said:

    Actually, yes, there is. The main site of the layout is down, apparently, but Google has saved the relevant page in its cache. What they did was they prepared a corpus of Russian texts (it remains unclear where they were taken from) and tried to come up with a layout that would be optimal with respect to certain parameters. In particular, a layout would be penalized for each sequence of consecutive letters pressed with the same finger (they favor the “rolls”, as you call them).

    Interesting, I'll have a look, thanks.

    I think it would be interesting to compare Rulemak, ЙЦУКЕН and DIKTOR (turns out it's spelled with a “K”) according to carpalx typing effort model. It's kind of surprising that ЙЦУКЕН it not as ergonomic as it appeared to be and I'd like to find out how bad it is compared to DIKTOR and Rulemak. I'll probably do it this weekend.

    I'd be very interested in your results with the carpalx model on a real Russian corpus!  But perhaps we should start a separate topic for this (I hope this won't go too much off-topic for the Colemak forum, but a lot of general keyboard related optimization stuff has been discussed here, and after all we're still discussing Colemak's Cyrillic twin :-)).

    P.S. As it is the “Experiences” forum, I'd like to add something about my Colemak experiences: I have reached an average speed of 55 wpm. My ultimate goal is to type 70 wpm by the end of September. :)

    Good luck!

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    dfyz said:

    for some reason, similarity to Colemak doesn't really help

    I use a (different) Cyrillic layout too, so I know what you mean, but when you get used to it it might be better to use similar layouts for the two alphabets and languages. But I would prefer the Cyrillic layout to be better optimized and not necessarily a 100% phonetic correspondence to Colemak.

    The most important problem for me when using different layouts is the different positions of the symbols, especially the comma and period, but I'm not sure Cyrillic letters should be moved to hard to reach keys in order to keep the symbols in their Colemak places. What do you think?

    dfyz said:

    sometimes Colemak is not available, and going back to hunting & pecking, even for a short while, is annoying.

    I am learning to type in QWERTY now. I am slow, but at least I don't have to hunt and peck. Colemak keeps many of the letters in the same positions anyway.

    dfyz said:

    The idea of mapping Caps Lock to Backspace seems terrible to me. I do use Caps Lock every now and then (for typing either a C macro or some acronym like QWERTY), and even if I didn't, it still wouldn't make much sense. I like Caps Lock the way it is.

    With Portable Keyboard Layout (PKL) I now have Caps Lock acting as Caps Lock, but Caps Lock + H acting as Backspace. This is much better because you often have to press Backspace several times and so better not do it with the pinky. (Caps Lock + UNEI are my arrow keys). Unfortunately, as far as I know, this is not possible in Linux. I think you can make Caps Lock AltGr and still have the arrows, etc, but then you can't make it act like a normal Caps Lock if pressed by itself.

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    dfyz said:

    The most important problem for me when using different layouts is the different positions of the symbols, especially the coma and period, but I'm not sure Cyrillic letters should be moved to hard to reach keys in order to keep the symbols in their Colemak places. What do you think?

    I think you'd have to take into consideration the frequency of the punctuation characters wrt. the rarer cyrillic letters.  I don't have statistical data on this, but I can imagine comma and period being more frequent than eg. щ or ъ, thus deserving better positions.

    dfyz said:

    With Portable Keyboard Layout (PKL) I now have Caps Lock acting as Caps Lock, but Caps Lock + H acting as Backspace. This is much better because you often have to press Backspace several times and so better not do it with the pinky. (Caps Lock + UNEI are my arrow keys). Unfortunately, as far as I know, this is not possible in Linux. I think you can make Caps Lock AltGr and still have the arrows, etc, but then you can't make it act like a normal Caps Lock if pressed by itself.

    Interesting ideas.  I think on Linux you might want to swap Control and Caps Lock (which is what a lot of UNIX-Qwerty people do also, since older Sun keyboards had those keys swapped, too).  Then you automatically have Ctrl+H for backspace, and I guess the arrow keys could be mapped to.  But the way you describe it is not possible without deeper xkb hacking...

    Last edited by ghen (21-Sep-2009 11:51:52)
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    I use Caps+O for backspace, and Caps+; for Del. Yes, it's great. And my left pinky is happy as a clam.

    *** Learn Colemak in 2–5 steps with Tarmak! ***
    *** Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks for Win/Linux/TMK... ***

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